Use of el/la

[SPX]

Okay, so is it just me or does "el/la" seem to be just randomly inserted into sentences at times?

A few random examples that I recently ran across. . .

I believe in God. = Creo en Dios.

Okay, makes sense. . . But:

I believe in aliens. = Creo en los extraterrestres.

Why is it, "I believe in THE aliens"? THE aliens? Which ones? I suppose if we were speaking of some specific race of aliens in would make sense, but this is a generic term. Furthermore, why is it not "I believe in THE God."

I just don't get the inconsistency here.

Another example:

Honesty is very important. = La honestidad es muy importante.

Why THE honesty? Is this some specific honesty that is separate from just good ol' fashioned generic honesty?

This has also confused me on the use of "del/de la." To use the same example, I would expect "House of Honesty" would be Casa de Honestidad, but something tells me it would end up being Casa de la Honestidad. There are many other examples like this that have been confusing to me.

[Luna Azul]

In Spanish the article is far more used than in English. I'd say, when in doubt, use the article. I think you'd be likely to make fewer mistakes that way.

By the way, you're right, we'd say "Casa de la Honestidad"..

[SPX]

Okay, thanks. Another one of those "just the way it is" kind of things.

I think I'm starting to get a feel for when it's used and when it's not. But it still seems random and inconsistent.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by SPX

Okay, thanks. Another one of those "just the way it is" kind of things.

I think I'm starting to get a feel for when it's used and when it's not. But it still seems random and inconsistent.

I hear you . I have to deal with the inconsistencies of the English language.. For instance, the use of the prepositions make no sense at all sometimes..

Why would you say "I've had many things on my mind recently" instead of ".....in my mind"? Your mind is inside you, right?

Or.. why would you say "I wrote it in a letter" but "I wrote it on a list"? Both are pieces of paper where you wrote something.. right?

And those are only a couple of examples ... I imagine the reason is the same.. "just the way it is"..

[SPX]

Hmm, good point.

I do admit that it seems like English would be a nightmare for anyone to learn from scratch. I'd hate to have to do it.

Just the other day I started a beginner's course in Esperanto. Supposedly it is a 100% consistent language that is much easier to learn than any other language. I really want to see if those claims hold up.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by SPX

I do admit that it seems like English would be a nightmare for anyone to learn from scratch.

I wouldn't say it's a nightmare. It's not that bad, actually. The grammar is pretty easy compared to other languages. The problem is the lack of rules.. Lots of things don't make sense.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

The definite article is placed before the noun to associate the content of a sentence to a specific idea, like in "Ayer vi a la señora López" (I saw Mrs. Lopez yesterday) or to some universal concept like in "La honestidad es muy importante" (Honesty is very important).

That is why it's used to refer to an idea already assumed to be known by the person you're talking to:

·Voy a llevar el coche al mecánico. (I'm taking the car to the mechanic) -> It's obviously not any car, but one you already know about (for example, _my_ car). The mechanic can only be the person who will repair the broken car.

·La sopa está deliciosa. (The soup is delicious) -> The soup I'm eating, otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.

·No he leído las cartas que me llegaron. (I haven't read the letters I received) -> The explanation makes clear which letters I'm talking about, not just any letters.

·Los canarios necesitan más comida. (The canaries need more food) -> The canaries that depend on me to be fed.

·El gato de María se murió. (María's cat died.) -> The cat is the one defined by the property.
　
As for contractions:
·de el -> del
·a el -> al

[wrholt]

I've finally gotten home from work and had a chance to check my references. As I suspected, there are some general rules regarding when to use articles and when not to use them. However, there are also a lot of less general rules and plenty of cases that just need to be learned one by one. My favorite grammar reference (Butt & Benjamin) takes nearly 25 pages to discuss articles, including discussions of situations where articles should be used and situations where articles should not be used.

The biggest difference between English and Spanish usage is with abstract nouns or with nouns that refer generically to every member of their class: English does not normally use articles with non-count abstract nouns or with plural nouns that refer to every member of their classs, while Spanish normally requires articles: reality = la realidad; Belgians = los belgas; culture = la cultura.

[SPX]

Angela:

You see, that's just it, all the examples you listed make sense. With the exception of honesty--though, okay, I think I get the "universal concept" idea--I would expect el/la to be used. Sure, THE car . . . THE canaries. (However, if the statement is that, "Canaries [in general, meaning ALL canaries] need to eat every day," then I would think it would be simply, "Canarios necesitan comer cada día.")

Though if some guy says, "Creo en los extraterrestres" I would think he must be referring to some SPECIFIC "extraterrestres." The ones from Mars? The ones from Alpha Centuari? The Klingons from Star Trek?

If he is simply saying that he believes that some other living creatures are "out there somewhere" then the use of the article doesn't really make sense to me.



WRHOLT:

Thanks for that info. I suppose my aliens example falls into the "every member of their class" specification. This will no doubt take some time to get used to in order to instinctually known when, and when not, to use the article.

[aleCcowaN]

The opening post can be translated as

¿Por qué "I am a teacher" y no "I am teacher"? Esto es arbitrario y me confunde.

The answers can be translated in a similar way:

Porque si dices "I am teacher" parece como que te apellidaras Teacher.
Because if you say "Lo importante es honestidad" is like saying "Lo importante es Doña Honestidad".

It all boils to: Spanish has a grammar much more complex than English's, so Spanish tends to rely in grammatical means and weaving of clauses while English relies in lexical means and word order:

Honesty is important. Important is honesty.
English: simple grammar; it relies very much in word order to parse a sentence

La honestidad es importante. Importante es la honestidad.
Spanish: complex grammar; word order is less of a key point in sentence parsing, so a token of function is required.

We can go on looking for "spiritual markers", "symbolic operators" and the "philosopher's stone" that "transmutes" English in Spanish and vice-versa. It doesn't work that way: they are different languages, not the same language with a different articulation; languages don't work that way; human brains don't work that way; language learning doesn't work that way.

[Ramanujan]

Originally Posted by SPX

Another example:

Honesty is very important. = La honestidad es muy importante.

Why THE honesty?

I only answer this part of the question.

As a general rule, the definite article is used to generalize the subject of a sentence.

El pato es de sangre fría. = Ducks are colded blooded [animals].
Me gustan los patos. = I like ducks.

Note: The second sentence can be a bit confusing since "los patos" is the subject of the sentence in Spanish, but not the subject of the translated sentence in English.If we were to translate the sentence literally, it would be, "the ducks are pleasing to me," which is not an acceptable translation.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Ramanujan

Me gusta el pato. = I like ducks..

Me gusta el pato probably means I like duck, as in pato a la naranja. If you like ducks, you keep them as pets, you don't eat them. (well, you could do both )