Does Spanish in the U.S. actually present an inconvenience?

[Zarnium]

Every time there's a news article about the prevalence of Spanish in the U.S., there are always a bunch of commentors who say absurd things like "Mexicans need to assimilate and stop speaking Spanish, it makes me really angry when I see people speaking Spanish at the bus stop" or "Lowe's started putting up signs in Spanish, so I refuse to shop there anymore." These are obviously the most petty of the complaints, but since I don't live near a heavily Hispanic region of the U.S., I wanted to ask; is there really any major inconvenience or hardship to English-speakers caused by people speaking Spanish in the U.S.?

Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is; if Spanish-speakers want to move here and they continue to speak Spanish with other Spanish-speakers, get jobs where they can speak Spanish, and patronize businesses that they can speak Spanish at, it's no skin off my back. I suppose instances where a Spanish-speaker goes to an English-speaking establishment and demands to be served in Spanish are obnoxious, but I'd say that has more to do with that individual's rude behavior than anything directly related to the speaking of Spanish in the U.S. I don't see a problem with Spanish-speakers using Spanish in public, or in business settings where its appropriate, or with them using it with their children.

I may not live near many Spanish-speakers, but I do live in a college town where there are a lot of Chinese students. They speak Mandarin to each other, and they eat at Chinese restaurants where they order in Mandarin. Mandarin can usually be heard any time you go outside, and there are sometime signs and notices in Mandarin. The Chinese people don't always speak especially good English, but it's good enough that aren't any major communication barriers. This being said, none of the non-Chinese people here care, and it doesn't present any inconvenience to us. I don't see how the situation with Spanish-speakers is any different except that there are a lot more of them and they have a lot more political baggage tied to them.

[Rusty]

Inconvenience isn't the real issue. Those who are complaining are simply bigots, in my opinion. They have little to no tolerance for people who are different.

For some reason, Americans seem to be less tolerant of people who speak a foreign language. Perhaps this is because almost all who initially came to America were happy to embrace a new tongue (if their mother tongue wasn't English).

I don't know of a Spanish-speaking person living in America that refuses to learn English and insists that all Americans learn to speak Spanish. That sounds absurd.
Why can't an American who thinks everyone should learn to speak English see the same absurdity?

This has all been discussed before.

[poli]

This ignorance has a funny side, and if I am not mistaken, an example of which I brought up in past threads. I fired someone who used to say "talk American!" to non-English speakers. Ignorance is sometimes worn with pride like fancy jewelry. Speaking English as opposed to talkin' American would have seemed suspiciously Un-American

[Zarnium]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I don't know of a Spanish-speaking person living in America that refuses to learn English and insists that all Americans learn to speak Spanish. That sounds absurd.

Well, I've read comments from people who swear they've seen this happen. I doubt that it's very common, but I don't want to assume anything, either.

I'm with you, I don't see any reason to think that Spanish being present in the U.S. is a problem. I suppose It conceivably could be if Spanish were to overcrowd English to the extent that it was at risk of going extinct in North America, but it's nowhere near that point currently, and it isn't at risk of becoming so in the future. English is the second or third most common native language in the world (depending on who you ask), and it has immense international clout. It's not in danger of disappearing.

[Glen]

Good question, Zarnium and good replies from others. The only inconvenience I see is to serious students of Spanish who happen to be strict constructionists, trying to learn castellano castizo and having to work through a hodgepodge of Spanglish words that have inflitrated it.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

Every time there's a news article about the prevalence of Spanish in the U.S., there are always a bunch of commentors who say absurd things like "Mexicans need to assimilate and stop speaking Spanish, it makes me really angry when I see people speaking Spanish at the bus stop" or "Lowe's started putting up signs in Spanish, so I refuse to shop there anymore." These are obviously the most petty of the complaints, but since I don't live near a heavily Hispanic region of the U.S., I wanted to ask; is there really any major inconvenience or hardship to English-speakers caused by people speaking Spanish in the U.S.?

Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is; if Spanish-speakers want to move here and they continue to speak Spanish with other Spanish-speakers, get jobs where they can speak Spanish, and patronize businesses that they can speak Spanish at, it's no skin off my back. I suppose instances where a Spanish-speaker goes to an English-speaking establishment and demands to be served in Spanish are obnoxious, but I'd say that has more to do with that individual's rude behavior than anything directly related to the speaking of Spanish in the U.S. I don't see a problem with Spanish-speakers using Spanish in public, or in business settings where its appropriate, or with them using it with their children.

Originally Posted by Rusty

Inconvenience isn't the real issue. Those who are complaining are simply bigots, in my opinion. They have little to no tolerance for people who are different.

For some reason, Americans seem to be less tolerant of people who speak a foreign language. Perhaps this is because almost all who initially came to America were happy to embrace a new tongue (if their mother tongue wasn't English).

I don't know of a Spanish-speaking person living in America that refuses to learn English and insists that all Americans learn to speak Spanish. That sounds absurd.
Why can't an American who thinks everyone should learn to speak English see the same absurdity?

I really like what Rusty has said.

My wife is a native Spanish speaker. She use to come home
from work saying that the boss had told her not to speak
Spanish at work. She told him, look, you speak English and
can express yourself in English. I feel the same with Spanish.
This would go on and on from time to time. I've had people
give me bad looks for speaking Spanish. Have had people
be rude to my wife and me when speaking Spanish in public.
Now there are so many Spanish speakers around it doesn't
happen much anymore.

This book below is really good and I got a lot of insight from it.
If you want an over all background on what has gone on
in the U.S. with Spanish speakers get this book. I saw
it for $5.00. It's an old book. At the time it was written
many of the things it talked about were tabu. You have
to remember The United States and Mexico had a bitter
war and Mexicans were considered the enemy. I have a
U.S. History book that talks about the Mexican American
War being dirtier than the Viet Nam War. It says for example
England and Spain were enemies and Americans saw Mexicans
who spoke Spanish as the English saw Spainards. Funny how
to many English speaking Americans all Spanish speakers are
the same. There is a kinship amoung all Spanish speakers in
the U.S. regardless of which of the 21 Spanish countries they
come from.


North From Mexico- The Spanish-Speaking People of the U.S. ...

[Haven]

I agree with everyone else -- those who have problems with people speaking Spanish in the United States are simply bigots. English isn't even the official language in this country (there is no official language), nor is it native to the US (it's an import from England). Personally, I love the diversity of hearing different languages on the streets. It's one of the things I miss most about living in a larger city.

[Zarnium]

Originally Posted by Haven

I agree with everyone else -- those who have problems with people speaking Spanish in the United States are simply bigots. English isn't even the official language in this country (there is no official language), nor is it native to the US (it's an import from England). Personally, I love the diversity of hearing different languages on the streets. It's one of the things I miss most about living in a larger city.

To be fair, most of the anti-Spanish people I've seen also want English to be established as the official language... which itself is still something that I think is unnecessary and pointless.

[Meeksrd0]

It's annoying to me that when you asked if this were a real problem everyone immediately started calling the other side racists. Like let's just give up on making clear cut arguments and start saying the other side is intolerant instead.

If you want a serious answer to your question go to a conservative forum and ask them. I don't agree with what they have to say, but it's unfair and weak to demonize them just because they don't think the same as we do.

[Rusty]

Aside from the question appearing in the thread's title, the question was

is there really any major inconvenience or hardship to English-speakers caused by people speaking Spanish in the U.S.?

This question was preceded by the original poster's own statement of disdain, indicating that he disapproves of absurd people who react in a critical way when they hear or see the Spanish/Mexican language used in the U.S.

All who posted thereafter apparently saw no 'major inconvenience or hardship to English-speakers caused by people speaking Spanish in the U.S.', since they all agreed with the original poster's indignation.

It looks to me like the question was answered.
Does the original poster concur?

[Aprendo]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

Every time there's a news article about the prevalence of Spanish in the U.S., there are always a bunch of commentors who say absurd things like "Mexicans need to assimilate and stop speaking Spanish, it makes me really angry when I see people speaking Spanish at the bus stop" or "Lowe's started putting up signs in Spanish, so I refuse to shop there anymore." These are obviously the most petty of the complaints, but since I don't live near a heavily Hispanic region of the U.S., I wanted to ask; is there really any major inconvenience or hardship to English-speakers caused by people speaking Spanish in the U.S.?

Some people may be prejudiced / biased against Mexicans of Latin American Spanish speakers.

And there are additional issues, IMO.

Spanish speaking in the US has political connotations with the recent illegal immigration, amnesties, political power of illegals, and La Raza.

I am studying Spanish again with a great teacher and preparing for DELE this year. I also hope to travel to Mexico to improve my Spanish next fall by spending 5 weeks in Mexico.

I separate the language from the political aspects.

In addition to loving the Spanish language, having Spanish ability can be practical for certain jobs.

Good posts on this thread.

Yes, as a poster noted, Americans can be a little prickly when it comes to non-English being spoken. Any foreign language.

As for the post about work, I can see why companies want an "English only" policy for communication purposes.

[Zarnium]

Originally Posted by Meeksrd0

It's annoying to me that when you asked if this were a real problem everyone immediately started calling the other side racists. Like let's just give up on making clear cut arguments and start saying the other side is intolerant instead.

Well, it's a bit hard to not call someone a bigot when their only reasons for disliking Spanish is "I think it's really, really annoying, and Mexicans should always speak English here, just because." I've seen no practical arguments from the anti-Spanish side, just a lot of people who highly dislike it for no particular reason, and who think that Spanish being spoken in the U.S. is disrespectful to our culture, but don't give any reasons why or clearly define "respect" in the first place.

Now, if you've got some sort of actual evidence that the use of Spanish in the U.S. is somehow making life demonstrably and unacceptably worse for English-speakers, feel free to present it. I realize you're playing devil's advocate here, but I honestly haven't found an anti-Spanish argument that isn't a lot of hot air, or a lot of circular logic: "I don't like Spanish because I don't like it."

The most practical anti-Spanish argument I've seen is that, due to the influx of Spanish speakers, learning Spanish is a valuable job skill, meaning that someone who doesn't know Spanish is at a disadvantage. This is true, but it's always been the case that people who have secondary job skills that are in demand at a given time will be more employable than those who don't have them, and that's true at all times and in all industries. Society and technology aren't static, so neither are useful job skills.

Originally Posted by Meeksrd0

If you want a serious answer to your question go to a conservative forum and ask them. I don't agree with what they have to say, but it's unfair and weak to demonize them just because they don't think the same as we do.

I've come across more than enough anti-Spanish sentiment to get a clear idea of what they think, so I wanted to come here and get the other side of the coin.

[Aprendo]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

Well, it's a bit hard to not call someone a bigot when their only reasons for disliking Spanish is "I think it's really, really annoying, and Mexicans should always speak English here, just because." I've seen no practical arguments from the anti-Spanish side, just a lot of people who highly dislike it for no particular reason, and who think that Spanish being spoken in the U.S. is disrespectful to our culture, but don't give any reasons why or clearly define "respect" in the first place.

There are many cultural differences and as I noted many connotations with Spanish now, IMO.

In my hometown, illegals are undercutting citizens in certain jobs and even starting unofficial businesses.

The Spanish language has become political. I like the Spanish language, but not the invasion from Mexico.

I cannot do anything about, so it's not my concern.

[Zarnium]

Originally Posted by Aprendo

There are many cultural differences and as I noted many connotations with Spanish now, IMO.

In my hometown, illegals are undercutting citizens in certain jobs and even starting unofficial businesses.

Illegal immigration and the potential economic problems that come with it are an entirely different issue that has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not the use of the Spanish language is causing any demonstrable harm.

I think it would be a mistake to conflate the two; it seems to me that the people who are against the Spanish language are just people who are against illegal immigration, so they decide that they dislike everything related to it and demand that it all must go, whether or not that's logical. (Never mind that there are plenty of legal immigrants.)

Complaining that you don't like illegal immigration is one thing; complaining about the Spanish language being present in the U.S. just because illegal immigrants speak it and you don't like it by association is quite another. As I've said, such people haven't given an actual case for the language itself causing difficulties to them other than "I don't like it."

[Aprendo]

I see your points.

We see it the same way.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Aprendo

There are many cultural diitfferences and as I noted many connotations with Spanish now, IMO.

In my hometown, illegals are undercutting citizens in certain jobs and even starting unofficial businesses.

The Spanish language has become political. I like the Spanish language, but not the invasion from Mexico.

I cannot do anything about, so it's not my concern.

Aprendo, have you or anybody seen what Jeb Bush has recently
said about illegal immigrants? I'm on my phone or I would give
you a link. He is now defending illegales as if he were a liberal.
Type in "Jeb Bush will rise with his stance on illegals" Let me
know what you think. Many conservatives are upset with him.

[Aprendo]

Originally Posted by Villa

Aprendo, have you or anybody seen what Jeb Bush has recently
said about illegal immigrants? I'm on my phone or I would give
you a link. He is now defending illegales as if he were a liberal.
Type in "Jeb Bush will rise with his stance on illegals" Let me
know what you think. Many conservatives are upset with him.

Yes, I read his comments.

Jeb is a politician who still has greater political ambitions for his future. He has to be on board with the illegals and he also needs the Latin vote.

In addition, I don't know if this is related, but Jeb is married to a Columbian and he majored in Latin American Studies for his BA.

With the illegals it's a political football game.

There is no sense of order or common sense in America. I have given up on the country.

[Villa]

Thanks for the reply, Aprendo. "Ilegals are doing an act of love."
In Spanish we would call this El colmo! What a hipocrite.
So you've given up on the country? That's a rhetorical question.
Sabes lo que quiere decir El colmo? That's a real question.

[Manuel]

I think people here are a bit too lenient regarding foreigners when it comes to language!

I live in the Netherlands and we have plenty of foreigners here who don't speak Dutch at all, mainly because they can get away with English just fine because almost all Dutch people speak English well enough!

But I have to say that as a Dutch person I find it quite strange, to say the least, to go into a bar or restaurant and having to order in English because the person serving me doesn't speak a word of Dutch!

I think that when you move to a new country, you should integrate as best as you can. That means learning the language of the country, too. You cannot expect the majority to conform to YOUR preferences; you are the minority in this case, so you should conform to THEM. It's only natural.

If you don't bother to learn a country's language because you speak English and you know that most of the people in that country already speak English you are incredibly ARROGANT. This happens a lot over here in the Netherlands. Almost everyone here speaks English well enough, so foreigners often don't bother to learn Dutch. But I think that shows a great disrespect for the culture.

It's fine if you also want to maintain your own culture within your private life, but if you live in a country with a different language to your own native one I believe you should really make some effort to learn it. If you are Spanish and you live in the Netherlands, fine, speak Spanish with all your Spanish-speaking friends over here but also learn to order something in Dutch because you LIVE HERE! Do you honestly expect all Dutch people to speak to you in English just because you are too lazy to learn Dutch???? Think about it! It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

[poli]

If I were to live in the Netherlands, I would certainly make it a priority to learn Dutch even though, as you state, English is widely spoken.