Pronunciation of Sch-

[Perikles]

This article is good practice in reading Spanish. This bit I find puzzling:

Uno lee una palabra en español -por ejemplo, Iniesta o Alonso o incluso Zubizarreta- y sabe exactamente cómo decirla en voz alta. Uno lee una palabra en inglés y, aún siendo británico de nacimiento, muchas veces no sabe cómo se debe pronunciar. Por ejemplo, el apellido Scholes. Perfectamente se podría suponer que la manera correcta de decirlo, en la lógica versión fonética española, es shouls. Pero no. Debido a que ha habido un jugador de ese nombre en el once titular del Manchester United desde 1995 sabemos que la forma correcta es skouls. (No, no eskouls, skouls, sin esa e que los hispanoparlantes siempre le agregan a las palabras en inglés que comienzan en una s seguida por una consonante, como en el caso de Espain).

Why should Scholes logically be pronounced shouls? The Sch- in an English word is always pronounced SK- because it (usually) derives from Greek σχ where the χ is a hard K sound, but breathed, hence the ch representation in the Latin alphabet.

[Tomisimo]

I agree with you. Another common example, the word school. (pronounced, skuul). What are some other words that start with sch-? Schooner, for example.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Tomisimo

I agree with you. Another common example, the word school. (pronounced, skuul). What are some other words that start with sch-? Schooner, for example.

I was thinking just of scho- like Scholes: scholar, school, scholium, etc. But even other words starting sch-: scheme; schism; schizophrenia; all with a hard k, except those imported directly from German, like schadenfreude. The only exception I can think of is schedule, which I think is quite amusing . But this one comes from French cédule, from Latin schedula, from the Greek for papyrus beginning in σχ, so it's their fault.

[aleCcowaN]

I suppose that comes from German pronunciation (It's Schultz, it must be Scholes). Certainly /'ʃoles/ or /'ʃoləs/ may be the way they'd pronounce it here, or /ʃoʊls/ if they'd try "to play the Englishman", as they say.

It has to do with some expectation about how "our alphabet" is used within a foreign language and native aversion for syllables that start with two consonant sounds . I suppose English speakers do the same with what they also rightly call "our alphabet".

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by Perikles

But even other words starting sch-: scheme; schism; schizophrenia; all with a hard k, except those imported directly from German, like schadenfreude.

Or Yiddish. Scheme schmeme.

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by Perikles

The only exception I can think of is schedule, which I think is quite amusing . But this one comes from French cédule, from Latin schedula, from the Greek for papyrus beginning in σχ, so it's their fault.

In the US we normally pronounce schedule with a hard k, unless someone is trying to imitate a British accent. The only sch- words I can think of that don't use the hard k sound are all German surnames-- Scholl, Schwab, Schubert, etc.

[pjt33]

My comment on Yiddish was provoked by seeing the following in a dictionary: schlemiel, schlep(p), schlock, schmaltz, schmooze, schmuck.

[JPablo]

Yes, you are all totally right from the viewpoint of the English phonetics. The author of the Spanish paper (I haven't read it yet) is talking from the viewpoint of the Espanish way to pronounce things... like Alec says.

An Italian "chiaro" ("claro", obvious, clear) is pronounced with "k" and even in some Latin classes, the name Cicero, was pronounced "Kikero" (even if in Spanish is pronounced "Thithero" or "Sisero"...)

Espanish people need to go to Eskul... so these thzings get through our thzick Eskuls!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by JPablo

Espanish people need to go to Eskul... so these thzings get through our thzick Eskuls!

They watch too many films made by Esteven Espielberg

[Chris]

Get yourself an Oxford dictionary and you'll find a lot of Sch words.

Schism /sizəm, skizm/ --For this they gave two pronunciations.
Schist /shist/ --And this one they gave a sh sound.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Chris

Schism /sizəm, skizm/ --For this they gave two pronunciations.
Schist /shist/ --And this one they gave a sh sound.

It depends on where English got it from. The roots are (almost) always originally Greek, but Schist has been imported from French, and with it their change in pronunciation.

[Chris]

I see. My dictionary doesn't give where the word comes from.

[JPablo]

Originally Posted by Perikles

They watch too many films made by Esteven Espielberg

Yes, and there is one Escotisk one... very popular too (as anything to do with Freedom) EsBrave Heart, I believe it's called...

Originally Posted by Chris

Get yourself an Oxford dictionary and you'll find a lot of Sch words.

Schism /sizəm, skizm/ --For this they gave two pronunciations.
Schist /shist/ --And this one they gave a sh sound.

Yup!

Originally Posted by Perikles

It depends on where English got it from. The roots are (almost) always originally Greek, but Schist has been imported from French, and with it their change in pronunciation.

Yup!

Originally Posted by Chris

I see. My dictionary doesn't give where the word comes from.

Alas! Well, we can always check on the net...