According to English

[Xinfu]

Can I say this? If not, what should I say instead?:

-According to English grammar/usage/guidance/custom/tradition, when we quote a famous person, we can still use the present tense eg Shakespeare says xyz.

[Rusty]

"According to English grammar" works fine. It is also OK to say "usage."

[Xinfu]

Thank you~

[Xinfu]

What is suitable here?:

-Whether we have to use the original form or the -ing form depends on ___, with no rules; eg work experience, never working experience. They have to be memorised.

[Thomson]

Originally Posted by Xinfu

What is suitable here?:

-Whether we have to use the original form or the -ing form depends on ___, with no rules; eg work experience, never working experience. They have to be memorised.

In general, the phrase with _____ experience, the ____ would be a noun. When you say with work experience, you are using the noun form of work. That is generally how this expression is used.

If you want to use a verb there, it has to be converted to a noun by adding the gerund (normally adding -ing). with working experience The phrase then takes on the meaning of someone that has experience in the mental or physical activity necessary to do the job. Grammatically it is correct but not generally used.

Here is another word that might explain it better.

shop as a noun means a building where things are sold or built. A wood shop. A dress shop. etc.

shop as a verb is the act of visiting stores buying things, etc


with shop experience means experience with a shop, experience working in a shop, etc. Here shop is used as a noun

with shopping experience means experience in buying things. The verb form of shop was converted to a noun by converting it to the gerund form (adding -ping) so that it could fit in this phrase structure.

I hope the examples were helpful. What I am really trying to say it isn't so much of a memorization on what words get the ing and what words do not. It is more what form of the word are you using. If a verb, you need to convert it to a noun.

[Rusty]

Never 'working' experience Agreed. This means that the experience works/functions.

'With work experience' is how the expression is normally used.

'Experience' is the noun and 'work' is a noun modifying a noun. A noun that modifies a noun is known as an adjunct. It is something added on, but not part of the whole. In other words, you can remove an adjunct and not lose the meaning - 'experience' is 'experience' with or without the modifier.

'Working' can be a noun, known as a gerund, or a present participle.
In both cases, 'working' can be used as an adjective.

I like working. (A gerund is playing the role of a direct object.)
This is a working typewriter. (A present participle is playing the role of an adjective.)

She is working. (conjugated 'to be' + present participle)
She works. (verb)

[Xinfu]

Thank you, but let me ask again:

--Whether we have to use the original form or the -ing form depends on ___, with no rules; eg work experience, never working experience. They have to be memorised.

on English guidance/English usage/English custom? (This sentence sounds different from the one I asked about above.

[Rusty]

Perhaps I don't understand what you're asking.

In your sentence, using 'the original form' and 'the -ing form' isn't descriptive enough. I mentioned above that words ending in '-ing' could be either a gerund or a present participle. They each have a distinct usage. A gerund is a noun. A present participle is the second part of the progressive form.
Even so, both a gerund and a present participle can be used as an adjective.

I also mentioned above that a noun may modify a noun. In this role, the noun is called a 'noun adjunct'.

So, I would change your sentence to:
Whether we have to use a noun adjunct or a gerund or a present participle as an adjective depends on ...
... English grammar rules; ...
... English usage rules; ...

... e.g., 'work experience', never 'working experience'. They have to be memorized.

There are rules. That's why I changed your wording. Some native speakers make improper choices because they're unfamiliar with the rules.

Grammar, or usage, rules define how English is to be used. They don't necessarily have to be memorized. That's why I wouldn't add your final statement. When we have a question about grammar, we can access reference materials.

Whether we use the reference materials available is quite another matter, however.
Most native speakers do not know grammar very well at all. They just speak English the way they hear it spoken around them. Horrible English usage is rampant.

[Xinfu]

Thank you~

[Xinfu]

What are the appropriate words here?:

-According to ___, we have to say 'such an arrangement' or 'such arrangements', never 'such arrangement'.

Idiomatic English? English grammar? English Custom? English tradition? Modern English standards?

[Rusty]

English grammar
modern English standards

[Xinfu]

Thank you~