American (USA)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

[...]

You guys ARE talking about my learning Spanish fast, right? Or do you mean that I'm learning y'all's personalities fast? Hmmm.... Well, Thank you................

[...]

You're indeed learning Spanish fast and that's just great, but this time I was rather referring to your "mimicking" Hernán's teasing style.

[Ambarina]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I am sometimes annoyed with the arrogance that many (most?) USAmerican's have. I guess that many people around the world are very proud of their own nations/nationalities. But for some reason, American pride sometimes seems to come off "different" in a way that I cannot put my finger upon.

It seems that "pride" you've just described is common to the British as well.
My personal experience is that I was born and brought up in the UK, speak like a Brit. yet my surname is not. When looking for a job in the City (London) it wasn't uncommon to receive a request to call the HR department before an interview just to assure them that I didn't have an accent!
Outside London the initial reaction on introductions was "Oh! You speak English so well! Enough said.

[poli]

Originally Posted by Tomisimo

Yes, the official name is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, not México.

Oh, OK. Because I heard it and didn't see it in writing I quoted it incorrectly. It's Estados Unidos Mexicanos.
I still refer to myself as estadosunidense on forms that have to be filled out when entering a Spanish speaking country where nacionalidad requested (not that anyone looks at those things anyway). If some asks me what my nationality is in Spanish, I'll say estadosunidense. If the response is "o, americano" I'll say, "tambien americano".

[laepelba]

So, let me stir up the pot a bit. Especially since I'm going to be traveling in Spanish speaking countries this summer... When people native to a Latin American country are speaking amongst themselves, and they say "americano/a" ... they're typically referring to someone from the Western Hemisphere, right? North or South America? But if they specifically use the term estadosunidense, they are referring to someone from the USA, with the implication that the person is Anglo or gringo?

I am well aware that my "gringo-ness" will be apparent when I'm in Lima and Uruguay this summer. But I really want to avoid the ignorant/arrogant errors that so many gringo's make when interacting with cultures abroad....

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

So, let me stir up the pot a bit. Especially since I'm going to be traveling in Spanish speaking countries this summer... When people native to a Latin American country are speaking amongst themselves, and they say "americano/a" ... they're typically referring to someone from the Western Hemisphere, right? North or South America? But if they specifically use the term estadosunidense, they are referring to someone from the USA, with the implication that the person is Anglo or gringo?

I am well aware that my "gringo-ness" will be apparent when I'm in Lima and Uruguay this summer. But I really want to avoid the ignorant/arrogant errors that so many gringo's make when interacting with cultures abroad....

Estadounidense will do nicely. (Without the "s")

Usually nobody speaks of americanos, unless the conversation drifts to talk about the Americas. So, yes. You are correct. And do not worry, I am sure that if you inflict some unintentional damage, people will steer you in the right direction with an appropriate recommendation.

Do not be afraid to stick you foot in the mouth... it is only human. And we Latins love humans.

Someone, Poli or Tacuba, mentioned that Mexicans have the tendency to place nicknames to people... flaco , gringo etc...

Let me assure you that is not only Mexican...

I think all of Latin America. I am not sure about Spain, though... Sosia or Bolboreta will be able to clear this.

[Rusty]

He aquí lo que dice el DRAE. Note the spelling.

estadounidense

1. adj. Natural de los Estados Unidos de América. U. t. c. s.
2. adj. Perteneciente o relativo a este país.

Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

Based on this, people from both hemispheres are referring to a citizen of the United States of America, or something from or related to the USA, when they say estadounidense. I've seen arguments to the contrary, but if a dictionary were consulted to resolve any doubt, the term focuses on only one place.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Rusty

He aquí lo que dice el DRAE. Note the spelling.

estadounidense

1. adj. Natural de los Estados Unidos de América. U. t. c. s.
2. adj. Perteneciente o relativo a este país.

Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

Based on this, people from both hemispheres are referring to a citizen of the United States of America, or something from or related to the USA, when they say estadounidense. I've seen arguments to the contrary, but if a dictionary were consulted to resolve any doubt, the term focuses on only one place.

However, you can see how a current of thinking can lead to a seemingly wrong entry in such a prestigious dictionary of a language.

The entry makes the reference to how the word it is utilized and accepted. Now, if you examine the word by itself: Estadounidense

Logically I could refer to a Mexican also. Right. The official name of Mexico is Estados Unidos Mexicanos.

Now RAE also defines norteamericano:

norteamericano, na.

1. adj. Natural de América del Norte. U. t. c. s.

2. adj. Perteneciente o relativo a esta parte de América.

3. adj. estadounidense. Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.


Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados


So it is based only on usage and not logic. :-)

My question was based on logic, as to why Americans state that they are Americans, referring to this country and not the continent. :-)


I know it is a notion that not many people are readily to accept, but it is the cold fact.

The same with the word football....

Oh no, there we go again....Angelica please stop meeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by chileno

[...] Oh no, there we go again....Angelica please stop meeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

Como si se pudiera.


It is true that the official name of Mexico is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", but the nationality is called "mexicano" and nothing more.

It is a simple fact that many Mexicans consider that it's unfair that the name "norteamericano" is used exclusively by US-Americans, and it's the same about most Latin Americans who aren't happy that seemingly only the USA citizens can be called "americanos". So to avoid confusions and hurting sensitive spirits, I usually prefer "estadounidense" and "US-American" as they're simple and clearer to me.

I rarely join campaigns so it's better to stick to the principle that the meaning of words is given by the context, the one who speaks and his/her intention. So any word one uses can be as offensive or as neutral as one intends it to be.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

I rarely join campaigns so it's better to stick to the principle that the meaning of words is given by the context, the one who speaks and his/her intention. So any word one uses can be as offensive or as neutral as one intends it to be.

... if one keeps in mind the audience and the possibility of offense.......

[poli]

Originally Posted by laepelba

... if one keeps in mind the audience and the possibility of offense.......

That's true. Remember Romeo's fatal statement "What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

He's right of course, but he got into trouble for his reasoning.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by Rusty

He aquí lo que dice el DRAE. Note the spelling.

estadounidense

1. adj. Natural de los Estados Unidos de América. U. t. c. s.
2. adj. Perteneciente o relativo a este país.

Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

Based on this, people from both hemispheres are referring to a citizen of the United States of America, or something from or related to the USA, when they say estadounidense. I've seen arguments to the contrary, but if a dictionary were consulted to resolve any doubt, the term focuses on only one place.

Yes. I agree with Rusty's answers. If you are in the U.S.A the most common is that you say. Soy Estadounidense. Or simply you can say I'm American.

Although exist more way to say the same in the Mexico in the worldwide.

[PIKI]

Very interesting thread you guys, brought a lot to my attention thats for sure. So there's no problem with being called an american after becoming a US citizen because you were an american before you became a US citizen. Funny though because I dont ever remember calling myself and american, when people ask me where I'm from I alway say Minnesota (even though I moved from there when I was 9 twenty something years ago). So in spanish "soy de Minnesota", when they ask where's that, "aqui, es cerca de Chicago" Ive never left the US so Ive never come across the need to clarify, glad I read this thread before I visit Mexico.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Como si se pudiera.


It is true that the official name of Mexico is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", but the nationality is called "mexicano" and nothing more.

It is a simple fact that many Mexicans consider that it's unfair that the name "norteamericano" is used exclusively by US-Americans, and it's the same about most Latin Americans who aren't happy that seemingly only the USA citizens can be called "americanos". So to avoid confusions and hurting sensitive spirits, I usually prefer "estadounidense" and "US-American" as they're simple and clearer to me.

I rarely join campaigns so it's better to stick to the principle that the meaning of words is given by the context, the one who speaks and his/her intention. So any word one uses can be as offensive or as neutral as one intends it to be.

Exactly right. The nationality of this country is American. And that is what we need to understand.

My questions and prodding were to elicit comments, like Piki's

Originally Posted by PIKI

Very interesting thread you guys, brought a lot to my attention thats for sure. So there's no problem with being called an american after becoming a US citizen because you were an american before you became a US citizen. Funny though because I dont ever remember calling myself and american, when people ask me where I'm from I alway say Minnesota (even though I moved from there when I was 9 twenty something years ago). So in spanish "soy de Minnesota", when they ask where's that, "aqui, es cerca de Chicago" Ive never left the US so Ive never come across the need to clarify, glad I read this thread before I visit Mexico.

I find it interesting. I bet there are more people like you , that do not think in term of the country.

But, for the rest of the Americans that are reading this:

When you say " I am and American", are you thinking of the country or the continent?

And this where we (the rest of the world, pretty much) need to aim to understand. :-)

To me is very simple, once you know you cannot be offended by any of it.

[Tomisimo]

One thing we should remember is that any given word can have more than one meaning. In North American English, the word "America" has more than one meaning. It can refer to the continents, or it can refer to the country, the United States of America. So in English, one of the meanings of "American" is a citizen of the United States.

On a lighter note, I always wanted to push for the use of "Unitedstatesian".

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Tomisimo

On a lighter note, I always wanted to push for the use of "Unitedstatesian".

[PIKI]

Originally Posted by chileno

When you say " I am and American", are you thinking of the country or the continent?

In my opinion I would say the majority would be thinking of country when asked that question, with out a doubt.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by PIKI

In my opinion I would say the majority would be thinking of country when asked that question, with out a doubt.

And that is exactly my contention. :-)

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This reminds me of a computer book that cited "Ignorance is like virginity, once you lose it, it does not come back

[ZeroTX]

There's no place in the world where "American" doesn't mean someone from the United States. Any other thought is mere political playing with words. Nobody in Brazil or Chile or Peru or Costa Rica refers to themselves as "American." Only those from the United States do. Also, nobody refers to the Americas as "America" other than in discussions of historical land discovery (e.g. Columbus). If people are referring to the continents, they say "the Americas" not "America." Period.

I'm American. I refuse to say "estudounidense" because it just sound stupid and lacks the main noun... United states of what? America.

[María José]

In Spain we say American because it's easier than North American. When we are talking about people from other countries in the continent we'll either say Mexican, Peruvian... or South American when it applies.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by María José

In Spain we say American because it's easier than North American. When we are talking about people from other countries in the continent we'll either say Mexican, Peruvian... or South American when it applies.

I believe that the word American is most said in my country, but anyway there is a word most said for the people, and the word is Gringo.

For example.

Who was the gringo that entered yesterday to the victor's party.

I hope this don't offend anyone.