Open to ideas...

[Dustin]

Hola everyone. I am looking for some ideas. So far I have been asking for some sentences in English so I can translate. Those sentences have been very helpful. I have practiced them over and over!

I need to know where to go from here? Do I do more sentences? Do any of you have any good exercises for me to try out? I am doing verb drills on studyspanish.com, and they seem to be helping, but I really need more "real world" examples.

So, if you could take some time out of your busy day to help a newbie, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
~Dustin

[Rusty]

Chileno would tell you it's time to purchase a novel written in Spanish, preferably one you've already read in English and certainly one that interests you. You'll find plenty of real-world sentences inside.
I'm stealing his thunder, so I'll let him tell you what to do with the novel.

Watching movies in Spanish will help you with your listening skills, if done without subtitles.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Chileno would tell you it's time to purchase a novel written in Spanish, preferably one you've already read in English and certainly one that interests you. You'll find plenty of real-world sentences inside.
I'm stealing his thunder, so I'll let him tell you what to do with the novel.

Watching movies in Spanish will help you with your listening skills, if done without subtitles.

Thank you Rusty!

By now, I really thought that everybody thought what I proposed was total nonsense.

Just the idea of you thinking my method is of any help at all, it is a compliment.


Thanks.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by Dustin

Hola everyone. I am looking for some ideas. So far I have been asking for some sentences in English so I can translate. Those sentences have been very helpful. I have practiced them over and over!

I need to know where to go from here? Do I do more sentences? Do any of you have any good exercises for me to try out? I am doing verb drills on studyspanish.com, and they seem to be helping, but I really need more "real world" examples.

So, if you could take some time out of your busy day to help a newbie, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
~Dustin

You do easy exercises in as question here in the forums.
For instance, you try this first.


Hello Jorge, How are you, I'm fine Juan.

Juan.
What did you do in the last these few weeks?

Jorge.
Just I went to shopping with my mother to the market plaza near from my home.

And also I went to the super market with my father to buy things for the next fishing of the next weekend in the beach with my family.

You translate that into of the Spanish. Just you get endeavor more and you try it.

It's beginning of the exercises, if you fulfill the exercises before tomorrow, then I can give you more ideas.

Please you complete the translation into of the English and Spanish too the phrases.

Sincerely yours.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by chileno

Thank you Rusty!

By now, I really thought that everybody thought what I proposed was total nonsense.

Just the idea of you thinking my method is of any help at all, it is a compliment.


Thanks.

I think real sentence translation would be a very useful learning tool for Dustin. He'll be exposed to all kinds of grammar being used in everyday situations. He'll need to look up lots of words, to be sure, but he'll be able to get the hang of things more quickly from a novel full of sentences. I also think he should befriend someone who speaks Spanish natively, but I was saving that suggestion for later.

@Crotalito: There are several errors in your English sentences. I'm sure Dustin would be able to correct them, though, and then he can translate them to Spanish if he'd like.
Perhaps you could take the time to prepare him some Spanish sentences that he can translate into English. That would help him get ready to translate the novel of his choice from Spanish to English.

[ookami]

@chileno, your proposal is not a nonsense at all, is the method I always try to use when learning a language and it seems quite natural to do it that way. But what happens is that at the beginning is slower than learning the most important grammar things, general vocabulary and important usages, and if you don't have a strong will when you get tired you will leave the language study aside. So for most people learning things in steps is more encouraging than been bombard with a new tongue system at once. They get more incentivated, but at(?) long term it's slower. So if you have the necesary will, then buy a good dictionary,open a forum, and start reading a novel, searching words, and searching and asking confusing things.

[CrOtALiTo]

Ok.
When I have a few time, I will can write more sentences.

[Vikingo]

Translating is great, but I've found that the best way to practice is to translate into the language you're learning (Spanish), not the other way around. The goal is to start thinking in your new language, and throw away the crutches that your native language provides - they'll just hinder your progress when you want to become fluent. Understand the Spanish sentence without the aid of English translations, and you'll start to think in Spanish.

Reading Spanish novels is also great, and if you have a Spanish audiobook available that you can listen to while you read (or before or after), you'll learn a lot.

Here's a sentence I actually practiced speaking out loud a number of times, having to untie my tongue and gasp for air on the first tries, but it was very useful trying to pronounce it like the audiobook reader did:

Harry nunca había creído que pudiera existir un chico al que detestara más que a Dudley, pero eso era antes de haber conocido a Draco Malfoy.

There's no prize for guessing which novel it is.

In addition, the way the tenses and moods are used will challenge your brain with some grammar.. great, huh?

[LibraryLady]

For myself I do a lot of different things to learn Spanish. I find I lose focus and interest if I do the same things every day. Plus it is daunting to try and read a novel in Spanish when it takes a day (or more) to read a single page at the beginning. I combine text book learning with reading novels and watching tv (my favorite is Family Guy in Spanish ) If I get frustrated with one I just do something else for a while and then come back to it later. I want to add that if an adult novel in Spanish is daunting you can try a young adult novel. They generally have fast plots and a shorter number of pages.

[Vikingo]

Saludos, mi fiel populacho.

[chileno]

This is going to be a bit of along post...

When one translate from the foreign language to one's language, is the only "best way" anyone can do it. Else, how are you going to know that it remotely resembles something that makes sense, if it isn't in your own language?

I started from that notion. I know how to read, write and express myself in my own language. I do not need to learn again, even in another language.

If you don't understand what "mesa" means, it doesn't mean you cannot read and write that word, you might not know how to pronounce it not what it means, but you will know how to read it and write it, because you know how to read and write in your language.

So I had to translate English to Spanish, in my case, in order to know if I was doing somewhat OK.

Yes, it is tedious, but I had to do it. Else, nobody would do it for me, right?

I also had to do it because, after going to some ESL classes I had chosen, in which the teacher wanted us, all adult students to hold hands and sing the alphabet, and recited to us "this is your eye, this is your nose, that is a window, and that is a door", I started to bore myself to death, in total disbelief that in the greatest country of the world a thing like this could be happening. After two weeks of going to class I decided to drop them, not really knowing what to do. This must have happened during my first month of being in the States...

I came to the US in the middle of June 1979 and by end of August I started to work for a deli, cutting hams and in charge of the kitchen. In the third day of me being in that store the owner comes in and asks if had finished cutting the hams. I nodded, and he said "clean up the kitchen". i understood every word perfectly, after all I had had English classes in my schooling. So I looked up the ceiling of the kitchen, which was about 12 feet or higher above my head, and thinking furiously about where had I seen a ladder that tall in the back of the kitchen.... when he saw me looking up, he immediately told me "no, no, clean the kitchen" and moving his hand as if holding a rug and cleaning the surface of a nearby table. :-)

He asked me to help out at the counter to make sandwiches at lunchtime, it was a mess but I had to learn. I made my first sentence for me to say to the clients: "Por favor, hábleme despacio porque estoy aprendiendo inglés"

I translated that the best I could, and to my surprise, I was understood, but not only that, I was corrected by the customers too, so that encouraged me to continue translating the other two logical phrases/questions.

"¿Puede repetir? No entendí lo que dijo? and "Todavía no entiendo, puede decirlo de otra manera?

I chose to translate a novel, because I surmised that it would be the closest to real life situations and descriptions it would get. Instead of having phrase examples from a textbook about getting a pint of milk, or about a toothache, whatever.

I also surmised that by watching movies without subtitles would be beneficial to hone my listening skills and increase my vocabulary. As I was having more than enough reading and writing with my translation of the novel at hand.

That's all I have been saying all this time. i know how to do it and guide people though this system.

If anyone do this, the person will end up not having much problem with the new language. At that time the person can take it with grammar, if needed be. As the person will be able to equate his speaking level without going for grammar at a short time, and not in 5 or 7 years like most people state.

Keep in mind that if you don't know grammar in your language, but you can read, write and express in language, at your level, you can accomplish the same thing in another language without having to learn the other language's grammar.

How can, anybody who doesn't know their own grammar, pretend to learn another language by learning the other language's grammar first, and say it will be better. It can be accomplished, but it takes an inordinate amount of time.

Better learn your own grammar and then try the new one, it will make a better transition.

Call me crazy.

Sorry for the long post.

[CrOtALiTo]

I liked so much your commentary Chileno.
I don't know, but really it identifying me a lot of refer to my situation with the language.
I have learnt the language in an empiric way, because I have had the choice to assist to the school for a new learning for me, I know that it could benefit me a lot of in my skills, really sometimes I try to watch the movies without subtitles for that I can understand them the more precise possible for me and my mind.

Training each day with my brain each new words that can get paste in my mind, but it's hard or tend to be hard with the across of the time, because I have less time for me job and my family.

It's a goal to be here with you each day all the days, because I dedicate at least three hours daily to the read each post or write anything for practice my English, I know that I write bad the language, but I try.

I have learnt the language watching you as you write the same or something similar, and I feeling me proud of my endeavor of my time waste here in the forums.

I'm not regret of the waste time here with you, because I have achieved a little to knowledge during these last few years.

You have said.
Have since 1979 learning the language, and sometimes you get mistakes then.
What time I most wait to learn correctly the language?
I don't know, maybe it depend of the time that I have for study the grammatic's words.

Yes Chileno you are an example in my English.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

I liked so much your commentary Chileno.
I don't know, but really it identifying me a lot of refer to my situation with the language.
I have learnt the language in an empiric way, because I have had the choice to assist to the school for a new learning for me, I know that it could benefit me a lot of in my skills, really sometimes I try to watch the movies without subtitles for that I can understand them the more precise possible for me and my mind.

Training each day with my brain each new words that can get paste in my mind, but it's hard or tend to be hard with the across of the time, because I have less time for me job and my family.

It's a goal to be here with you each day all the days, because I dedicate at least three hours daily to the read each post or write anything for practice my English, I know that I write bad the language, but I try.

I have learnt the language watching you as you write the same or something similar, and I feeling me proud of my endeavor of my time waste here in the forums.

I'm not regret of the waste time here with you, because I have achieved a little to knowledge during these last few years.

You have said.
Have since 1979 learning the language, and sometimes you get mistakes then.
What time I most wait to learn correctly the language?
I don't know, maybe it depend of the time that I have for study the grammatic's words.

Yes Chileno you are an example in my English.

I understand what you are saying and thank you. But, please write in Spanish what you said, and you'll see the difference.

[CrOtALiTo]

Please you imagine.
I try to write everything I say in English, and it takes time.
Now if I write in Spanish everything, I delay more than only in English.

I'm not perfect.
Please I hope you can understand me.

[ookami]

I agree with almost everything you've said. Thanks for share(be sharing?) your experience with us chileno, it's a post I'll mark for future reference.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by ookami

I agree with almost everything you've said. Thanks for sharing your experience with us chileno, it's a post I'll mark for future reference.

You're welcome.

The thing is to be constant and be keen to corrections or changes that are made.

I am impervious to these now, as I got my mind set long ago. It was brought up by the fact that many people said it was impossible to do what I did in such a short time. People wouldn't believe me. And still....

[Tarential]

I completely agree with you chileno; except we differ in our conclusions to this data. I decided instead to correct my flaw and learn proper grammar in the English language to the best of my ability. Once this knowledge is gained, it can then be applied to learning any number of languages (something I intend to do).

That said, I find it perfectly reasonable for other people to not wish to use my method. Certainly, as you state, it is not necessary to know grammar rules to properly utilize the language. It might be faster in the end if one did know their own language's technical structure; but would it be faster to learn it before learning the other language? I would guess not. It could be open to debate.

This is just some food for thought. My post was not meant to be pro or con for either side. It is subjective I believe and cannot be decided in an absolute fashion.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Tarential

I completely agree with you chileno; except we differ in our conclusions to this data. I decided instead to correct my flaw and learn proper grammar in the English language to the best of my ability. Once this knowledge is gained, it can then be applied to learning any number of languages (something I intend to do).

That said, I find it perfectly reasonable for other people to not wish to use my method. Certainly, as you state, it is not necessary to know grammar rules to properly utilize the language. It might be faster in the end if one did know their own language's technical structure; but would it be faster to learn it before learning the other language? I would guess not. It could be open to debate.

This is just some food for thought. My post was not meant to be pro or con for either side. It is subjective I believe and cannot be decided in an absolute fashion.

Exactly, but remember that I set myself to "learn/acquire" English without fully knowing my own grammar. And I still was able to accomplish what I wanted, the ideal thing would have been to continue to learning either the English or Spanish grammar and then get the other one. Which I have not done in 28 years, and I don't think I am going to start now.