Italian vs. Spanish

[Anna]

Yes I agree! As a teacher of English I was amazed when I first heard my Spanish students speaking Spanish to my Italian students and the Italian students answering in Italian! So, for sure, it can be done! ;-)

[María José]

Originally Posted by Anna

Yes I agree! As a teacher of English I was amazed when I first heard my Spanish students speaking Spanish to my Italian students and the Italian students answering in Italian! So, for sure, it can be done! ;-)

I would only understand an Italian if he talked to me and not too fast. I get lost when they talk to one another. It's a bit easier with Portuguese, but maybe because I used to holiday there and because Portuguese people, mainly in the hotel business, are very good at languages. Sometimes I was not consciously sure, when recalling a conversation with a receptionist or a waiter if it had taken place in Portuguese-Spanish or just Spanish with a heavy accent on his part.(Sorry I used just masculine pronouns, girls, but it was faster this way ).

[Villa]

I just returned from a month in Italy. There are many Spanish speakers in Italy and every single Spanish speaker I met in Italy spoke Italian. I have made it a point the last 2 times I was in Italy to go out of my way to meet Spanish speakers. (I lived in Italy for 2 years and in 2007 went back to school in Italy.) I'm going into my 4th year of teaching Italian to Spanish speakers here in California. They all learn Italian relativamente facile compared to the English speakers por lo menos. Ademas I've lived in California all my life and have yet to meet an immigrant from Italy who did not learn Spanish right here in California. I myself learned Italian first and then Spaish. Italian and Spanish are more similar than they are different. Think about it logically. Even English has a vocabulary that is some 60% derived from Latin. Now just imagine Spanish that is a Latin language. Spain was Rome's most important colony for 640 years. Latin was spoken in Spain for 840 years. Romans went to live in Spain and visa versa to Rome. There were Roman emperors, popes, generals etc. etc. from Spain. Spain was Rome and Rome was Spain.
Sometimes when I talk to people in Italian they remind me so much of somebody I know who speaks Spanish and visa versa.

Come sta? Come va? la casa. You would have to be a real menso to not be able to learn Italian
being a Spanish speaker.

Anybody care to add to this list of words similar to Spanish and Italian?

A proposito.
Vale la pena.
Non vale la pena.
la casa
una casa
una casa grande
la casa grande
la mano
Quanto le devo?
Ti amo.
Ti amo tanto.
Ti amo tanto tesoro.
la libreria
la biblioteca
il supermercato
Dammi un bacio, tesoro.
arte
musica
la terra
nord
Atlantico
Pacifico
Artico
Antartico
disponibile
secondo
telefono
ora
caffe
tempo
sempre
va
agente
animale
attenzione
attore
azione
capitale
caso
centrale
centro
cereale
chitara
colore
differente
festa
gererale
generoso
importante
interessante
locale
materiale
nazione
necesssario
originale
personale
possibile
probabile
radio
regolare
ristorante
semplice
simile
teatro
totale
We could go on and on all day.

[irmamar]

gracias /grazie
llave /chiave
lunes, etc. / lunedì
etc.

E più facile:

Sí / Si
No / No

[ROBINDESBOIS]

Well, I speak both languages, I have a diploma in Italian. Learning Italian was very easy for me, because The grammar is almost similar, and the pronunciation is practically the same but for 3 or 4 phonemes. As far as vocabulary is concerned, the best thing to do is to learn just the words that are completaly different from Spanish, the rest is easy. At the beginning was difficult to do the agreement with all the endings singular, plural, masculine and femenine, because they are more like latin.
Though Written Portuguese is more similar to Spanish, it´s more difficult to understand because of the phonetics. Sometimes when I go to Italy I think they speak Spanish because they sound very similar except for 2 or 3 sounds as I said before, the rythim of the sentence is different, Spanish Argentinian is Spanish with an Italian accent.

I have an American friend who speaks Spanish and everytime he goes to Italy, speaks in Spanish to communicate without a problem.

[ookami]

It depends of whitch places of Italy you are talking about I belive. If you hear my grandmother speaking... if you don't known Italian it's difficult yo undrstand. But yes, I had watched some Italian movies and I think it isn't to difficult to understand for Spanish speakers if they speak quietly.
But Portuguese is a lot more easier for me.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by ROBINDESBOIS

Well, I speak both languages, I have a diploma in Italian. Learning Italian was very easy for me, because The grammar is almost similar, and the pronunciation is practically the same but for 3 or 4 phonemes. As far as vocabulary is concerned, the best thing to do is to learn just the words that are completaly different from Spanish, the rest is easy. At the beginning was difficult to do the agreement with all the endings singular, plural, masculine and femenine, because they are more like latin.
Though Written Portuguese is more similar to Spanish, it´s more difficult to understand because of the phonetics. Sometimes when I go to Italy I think they speak Spanish because they sound very similar except for 2 or 3 sounds as I said before, the rythim of the sentence is different, Spanish Argentinian is Spanish with an Italian accent.

Questo e molto vero! Es la pura verdad. Very true.

[Villa]

Here is a list of those important Italian words you need to know
in order to speak and understand Italian. Put them on flash cards.

Adverbs of quality or manner:

bene- well, (BAY-nay)
meglio- better,(MEL-yo)
peggio- worse (PEG-gee-oh)
male- badly, (MAH-lay_
anche- also (ON-kay
cosi- as, like (coe-SEE)
pure- also, too, (POO-ray)
insieme- together (in-see-EH-may)
come- as, like
invece di - instead of

Adverbs of time:

Quando?- When?
sempre- always,
mai- never, (my)
oggi- today,
domani- tomorrow,
ieri- yesterday, (YEER-ree)
adesso- now, ora-now,
allora- then, poi-then, (owl-OH-rah)
dopo- after,
dopo domani, the day after tomorrow
prima(di)- before,
ancora- still,yet, non ancora-not yet (an-CORE-rah)
spesso(frequentemente)- often,
stasera- tonight,
presto- early,soon,
tardi- late,
a tempo- on time,
gia- already, (jah) (An importantissimo little word!)
subito & immediatamente- immediately, (SUE-be-toe)
di quando in quando- from time to time,
di solito- usually (dee SO-lee-toh)
fa-ago, tre giorni fa- 3 days ago,
fino a- until, (FEE-no)
frattanto- meanwhile,
raramente- rarely,seldom,
recentemente- recently, (ray-chin-tay-MINT-tay)
ultimo- last,
una volta- once,

Adverbs of Place:

Dove?-Where?,
Dov'e? Where is?
lontano-far, (loan-TAH-no)
vicino-near, (vee-CHEE-no)
dietro-behind, (dee-EH-tro)
davanti-in front of,
avanti-forward, (ah-VAHN-tee)
indietro-backward,
dentro-inside,
fuori-outside,
qua,qui-here,
li,la-there
giu-down (jew)
laggiu-down there (lah-JEW)
lassu-up there (lah-SUE)
accanto a - beside
sopra-above
sotto-below
tra,fra-between
via-away (vada via!-get out of here!)
attraverso- through
intorno,attorno - around
da nessuna parte - nowhere
da qualche parte - somewhere
dappertutto- everywhere
a destra - to the right
a sinistra to the left

Adverbs of quantity:

Quanto?- How much?
molto-much
troppo-too much
poco-little
tanto-so much
abbastanza-enough
quasi-almost
piu-more (pew)
meno-less
circa-nearly, about (CHEER-kah)
soltanto, solo, solamente-only (soul-TAHN-toh)
assai-much
piuttosto- rather Piuttosto caro. - Rather expensive.
probabilmente- probably (pro-bah-bill-MINT-teh)
piu o meno- more or less
veramente- indeed, really
purtroppo- unfortunately (purr-TROP-poh)

Le Domande - Questions

Come?- How
Quanto? How much
Quanti? Quante? How many?
Come mai?- How come? (Very common expression.)
Che? What? (Kay?)
Che cosa? What? Che? and Che cosa? are basically the samething.)
Quale? Which?
Chi?(key) Who?
Perche? Why?
Perche -because
Che tipo di...? What kind of...?
Dove? Where
Dov'e? Where is?
Dove ci vediamo? Where shall we meet?

Aggettivi importante

buono- good
buffo- funny
caldo- hot
freddo- cold
caro- costly
cattivo- bad
celibe (CHAY-lee-bay) single male
aperto- open
chiuso- closed
corto- short
debole- weak
forte- strong
difficile- difficult
facile- easy
gentile- nice
giovane- young (JOH-vah-knee)
grande- big
piccolo- little
grasso- fat
magro- skinny
innocente
lento- slow
libero- free, availiable
malato- sick
meschio- mean
morbido- soft
nubile- single female (NEW-bee-lay)
nuovo- new
occupato- busy
pesante- heavy
piacevole- pleasant
piccante- spicy hot
pieno- full
pigro- lazy
primo - first
profondo- deep
sbagliato- mistaken
scuro- dark
secco- dry
sordo- deaf
sporco- dirty
pulito- clean
umido- humid
vecchio- old
vivace- active
vuoto- empty
zitto- quiet

Prepositions - Don't forget to make flash cards!!!

a- to, at
da- from, by, sometimes at
di- of sometimes from, about
in- in into sometimes by, on
su- on sometimes upon
con- with
per- for, through sometimes in order to + verb

[poli]

I would add voglio or desidero. If you are in a store or food establishment
it's nice to say I would like or I want instead of just pointing or other hand signals. Take a pocket dictionary to look up the Italian word for the object you need. As mentioned before in this topic, many nouns have cognates with Spanish nouns.

[irmamar]

"Vorrei", better than "voglio" (more polite):

Io vorrei un gelato
....

qui aspetto il mio gelato

[explorator]

This question about similarities between spanish and italian, reminds me the story we use to tell to explain the word "gringo". Although nowadays it is not very used in Spain, it's said that the term born after realizing that we were able to understand, with more or less work, french, italian, portuguesse etc. while we were unable to understand english or german. Of course, we did guess the reason was that such languages, as the spanish one, came from latin. But in that case, from which language did come the ones we could not understand? Obiously from the greek!, Griego in spanish, and from griego "gringo".

[OblivionLord]

Originally Posted by Villa

I just returned from a month in Italy. There are many Spanish speakers in Italy and every single Spanish speaker I met in Italy spoke Italian. I have made it a point the last 2 times I was in Italy to go out of my way to meet Spanish speakers. (I lived in Italy for 2 years and in 2007 went back to school in Italy.) I'm going into my 4th year of teaching Italian to Spanish speakers here in California. They all learn Italian relativamente facile compared to the English speakers por lo menos. Ademas I've lived in California all my life and have yet to meet an immigrant from Italy who did not learn Spanish right here in California. I myself learned Italian first and then Spaish. Italian and Spanish are more similar than they are different. Think about it logically. Even English has a vocabulary that is some 60% derived from Latin. Now just imagine Spanish that is a Latin language. Spain was Rome's most important colony for 640 years. Latin was spoken in Spain for 840 years. Romans went to live in Spain and visa versa to Rome. There were Roman emperors, popes, generals etc. etc. from Spain. Spain was Rome and Rome was Spain.
Sometimes when I talk to people in Italian they remind me so much of somebody I know who speaks Spanish and visa versa.

Let's not overlook a major difference between these languages. For 1...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language

"Among the Romance languages, Italian is the closest to Latin in terms of vocabulary.Lexical similarity is 89% with French, 87% with Catalan, 85% with Sardinian, 82% with Spanish, 78% with Rhaeto-Romance and 77% with Romanian."

Here is the chart...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_similarity

Now as for Spanish... Considering the land was influenced by Arabs for about 800 years....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_...anish_language

"It is estimated that the Spanish language counts over four thousand Arabic loanwords (including derivations) and well over one thousand Arabic roots, which together make up around 8% of the Spanish vocabulary. This makes Arabic the largest influence on Spanish after Latin."

Here is a list of Arabic and Spanish names for Iberian Cities and places....

http://baheyeldin.com/writings/histo...nd-places.html

This pretty much sums up the differences between a dirty language (Spanish) and a real romance language (Italian).

Not to go off topic though, I think French is the most romantic language. hehe

[irmamar]

¿A qué te refieres con lo de "dirty language? Precisamente lo que tú llamas "suciedad" es lo que enriquece un idioma.

http://cvc.cervantes.es/lengua/anuar.../bueno/p03.htm

¿Y qué fue del indoeuropeo?

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenguas_indoeuropeas

Puesto que ya el indoeuropeo era una lengua sucia, tal vez tendríamos que remontarnos a nuestros primeros gañidos y gruñidos para recuperar el origen de las lenguas.

[OblivionLord]

Yes it is true that the languages of Europe can be rooted from others all the way back to Indo-European, but you have to admit that some are more pleasing to the ear than others which is why I mentioned the word dirty in reference to Spanish. hehe

To give you an example. You mostly hear Opera sung in Italian. The language emphasizes more stress with ending vowels at the end of majority of the words. It doesn't sound quite the same if sung in Spanish.

On the flip side of the coin, if you've ever heard Spanish rap and compared it to Italian rap, you will notice very quickly that Italian rap simply doesn't sound as harsh or as rugged as Spanish even though there are alot of Italian rap artists.

Honestly I do enjoy the Catalan language since it somewhat combines French and Spanish.

[explorator]

Do you know that Miguel de Cervantes, wrote at his masterpiece "Don Quixote", that the italian tongue should not be translated into spanish as the translations are not able to transmit the whole sense of any text, and because he thought the italian was an easy to learn tongue. In fact he wrote that only the difficult languages as latin and greek should be translated, not the rest of them he considered easy to learn.

[irmamar]

El español es un idioma de gran riqueza (¿qué otro idioma tiene dos nombres?), no sólo léxicamente, sino por otros muchos motivos. ¿Qué otra lengua romance tiene la abundancia de tiempos verbales que posee la nuestra? No olvidemos la distinción entre los verbos copulativos ni nuestro querido subjuntivo. La flexibilidad en el orden de las palabras, la existencia de morfemas en adjetivos y adverbios, entre otros elementos sintácticos y morfológicos, proporciona a las oraciones matices semánticos inigualables en otro idioma que, tal vez, tengan que recurrir a una riqueza léxica que a nosotros nos es innecesaria. Nuestro vasto panorama literario es un exponente sin parangón y ejemplifica mis palabras mejor de lo que podría hacerlo yo.

Que un idioma sea agradable al oído en determinados campos es tan solo una opinión subjetiva, sin base científica alguna. En lingüística comparada no tienen cabida apreciaciones personales. Por tanto, es aconsejable no estudiar un idioma supuestamente deleznable o que produzca molestias auditivas de algún tipo, por lo que, ya que estamos en un foro de aprendizaje de los idiomas español e inglés, le sugiero que evite el estudio de esta lengua que tanto dolor le produce.

Personalmente, como no sé apreciar la belleza del rap o de la ópera (igualando en este caso mi exiguo conocimiento al suyo), no me concierne el idioma utilizado en ambos géneros musicales.

En lo que respecta al catalán, éste no es el resultado de una mezcla de español y francés. Es una lengua romance de un territorio que no dejó de sufrir las invasiones musulmanas, entre otras, como las sufrió gran parte de la península.

[explorator]

Originally Posted by OblivionLord

Let's not overlook a major difference between these languages. For 1...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language

"Among the Romance languages, Italian is the closest to Latin in terms of vocabulary.Lexical similarity is 89% with French, 87% with Catalan, 85% with Sardinian, 82% with Spanish, 78% with Rhaeto-Romance and 77% with Romanian."

Here is the chart...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_similarity

Now as for Spanish... Considering the land was influenced by Arabs for about 800 years....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_...anish_language

"It is estimated that the Spanish language counts over four thousand Arabic loanwords (including derivations) and well over one thousand Arabic roots, which together make up around 8% of the Spanish vocabulary. This makes Arabic the largest influence on Spanish after Latin."

Here is a list of Arabic and Spanish names for Iberian Cities and places....

http://baheyeldin.com/writings/histo...nd-places.html

This pretty much sums up the differences between a dirty language (Spanish) and a real romance language (Italian).

Not to go off topic though, I think French is the most romantic language. hehe

The of arab influence in Spanish language is in vocabulary and is most often found in agricultural terms,( a topic about they were true masters) and places. The massive presence of such terms is even bigger in Valencian language, in which was written the literary masterpiece Tirant Lo Blanc. The presence of arabic terms in any language does not get it "dirty". This "dirty" term is taught in Catalonian schools about Castillian and it is simply false. Educators who suggest that the Spanish language is an arab dialect are separatist propogandists. I hope get their independence soon and leave us in peace!
PS:
The true arabic dominance in the Iberian Peninsulae lasted from 711 to the 1212. From that date on, the Islam Kindoms were submised to Chistian ones.

[poli]

Originally Posted by explorator

The of arab influence in Spanish language is in vocabulary and is most often found in agricultural terms,( a topic about they were true masters) and places. The massive presence of such terms is even bigger in Vanencian(Venetian, Valencian ?) language, in which was written the literary masterpiece Tirant Lo Blanc. The presence of arabic terms in any language does not get it "dirty". This "dirty" term was taught in the past in Catalonian schools about Castillian and it is simply false. Educators who suggest that the Spanish language is an arab dialect are separatist propogandists. I hope get their independence soon and leave us in peace!

--------------------------
Me parece raro que pedagogos eseñaron eso. Hace un rato alguien aquí en los foros presentó una lista de palabras en castillano con origenes arabes. La lista es grande, pero vi que la mayoría de esas palabras
eran que no se usan mucho. Hablo español (más o menos) y no conocí
la mayoría de las palabras. Me gustan las palabras, e imagino que se las usan más en andalusía.

[explorator]

Tienes razón Poli, la mayoría de esas palabras ya no se utilizan, ni siquiera en Andalucía, donde presumen mucho de origenes árabes, que en realidad no son tales, pues la mayoría de la población bajo los reinos musulmanes eran descendientes de hispano-romanos, convertidos al islam: muladíes (hijos de distinta madre, en árabe) o cristianos, que tenían que pagar un impuesto para ello (mozárabes). Además tras la reconquista cristiana, se ocuparon las tierras primero por castellanos y después, dado que eran escasos por francos, procedentes de la actual Francia. Por último en 1616 se expulsó de España a toda la población con ancestros islámicos aunque fuesen cristianos (Véase expulsión de los moriscos).

[irmamar]

No es cierto que en Cataluña se enseñe que el castellano es un dialecto del árabe. Otra cosa es que no quieran saber nada del castellano, que es cierto (lo digo por experiencia). Pero nunca jamás he oído que digan que el español viene del árabe. Será que no hay pueblos aquí que empiezan por "Al" y por "Ben" o "Bel".