Using the subjunctive: Antes de que

[Jokerstyle]

Hello people, this is my first post here.

I'm having trouble understanding how the following adds up,
Here is a quote from a spanish learning website regarding when to use the subjunctive:

Here is a list of common expressions that may indicate that the action that follows has not yet been completed. These expressions will always invoke the subjunctive:

antes (de) que ...before ...

Seems fairly straightforward, but don't you say e.g. antes de comer (before eating) without the subjunctive form?
Maybe I'm missing something very basic here, and I bet it has something to do with que, but I dont know what.

Cheers

[Rusty]

Welcome to the forums!

'Antes de que' takes the subjunctive.

'Antes de comer': There is no verb in this phrase. Comer is an infinitive, and is used as a noun (object of a preposition, to be exact). Since there is no verb, no subjunctive mood can apply.

[Jokerstyle]

Thank you for the quick reply, señor Speedy!

I must admit I'm far too rusty with my grammar, but I think I understand the basics of what you are saying. (For starters, since the verb in this construction will always be in the infinitive there is no room for the subjunctive, which I guess makes my question quite stupid )

[Rusty]

Your question wasn't stupid. I always fall back on grammar, which is how I make sense of it all, to answer questions.

Antes de = before ('before' is a preposition)
Antes de comer = before eating (a preposition takes an object (a noun))

So, comer (eating) is not a verb in either language. It looks like a verb, but it's functioning as a noun. In Spanish, the infinitive is used. In English, the gerund is used.

When 'que' is added to 'antes (de)', this indicates that a verb will follow (not a noun).

[aleCcowaN]

@Jokerstyle

Not necessarily a stupid question. For instance:

antes de la cena / antes del almuerzo / antes de la comida

antes de que comamos / antes de que almorcemos / antes de que tomemos la comida / antes de que comiéramos / antes de que almorzáramos / antes de que tomáramos la comida

Between those groups lie

antes de cenar / antes de almorzar / antes de comer

"Cenar" is used to depict the kind of action that is expected during "una cena", but, unlike English, infinitive is not performing the action there but just being a handle. It is nominalized; it works as a noun:

Cenar temprano es bueno para la digestión (eating dinner early is good for digestion)

When we want to add who does that action and when, but not implying any performing action at the time of saying that, we use subjunctive:

Termina tus tareas antes de que comamos.

In those cases the magical conjunction "que" tell us how to parse the sentence. "Que" is not a part of "antes de" nor any other expression -books are extremely wrong in it-. "Que" sometimes correlates with "what" or "that" in similar English constructions, but it doesn't mean necessarily those. "Que" is like the '=' sign in an equation; people tend to ignore it but it promises an special relation between what is in both sides. The same role has "que".

So, you may take this and think about "antes de comer" and "antes de + que + ....." and realize there's something important that you have overlooked. Then, there are no stupid questions, not even there are questions that reveal stupidity. There are just questions that point our steps in the right direction, and there's nothing stupid in that.

[Jokerstyle]

Thank you for the replies, both of you.

@aleCcowaN
I get what you mean now about comer not being a verb but rather a noun in the sentences, which was the part that confused me at first.

Just to clarify, about the differences between:
Termina tus tareas antes de que comamos.
and
Termina tus tareas antes de comer.
The first phrase conveys, as you said, who are performing the action of eating but does not imply the eating actually taking place, while the second phrase gives no information about who is eating nor does it imply the action taking place?

Assuming both phrases are valid, could they be used more or less interchangeably?
Subjunctive is a really hard topic for me, since it's barely used at all in Sweden except for old, archaic idioms

[aleCcowaN]

Both sentences convey different information -not strikingly different, but different indeed-, otherwise what would be the use of having both forms. The sentence using subjunctive not only include the time set -near future- and the subjects -we-, but it also refer to just one instance, presumably the upcoming meal. The sentence using infinitive looks like a piece of advice or a general rule, and it only can be equaled to the other sentence provided the context points in that direction, that is, the lacking information is well known information, or the hearer can unambiguously deduct such information.

[Jokerstyle]

Thank you very much, the pieces are falling into place now.