Si se te queda

[Stu]

I see this line translated as follows

¿Y si se te queda duro en la camioneta?
And if he dies on you in the van?

I expect se to be an indirect object pronoun in this case but having trouble understanding how that works. It looks more like a subject pronoun in the English translation.
It looks to me like
te queda = leaves you
but leaves you for/to/from him that I can't see.

How does this work?

[aleCcowaN]

That "on you" is not implied in the original sentence.

That "te" is a "dativo de interés" or "dativo ético"

se queda = becomes, ends up
se te queda = becomes, ends up (and you have to experience the horror)

Another example on "dativo de interés":

¡Se me casa la nena!

se casa la nena = the girl's gonna marry
se me casa la nena = my girl's gonna marry (and leave my home; the nest is gonna be empty)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

The verb "morirse" has the "se" as an emphasis on the person. One could use just "morir", but then it sounds as the speaker doesn't care.

And "te", in this case, is correctly translated as "on you"; it's used as if the person had done something to you on purpose. Like when in the movies someone says "Don't die on me!", which we would translate as "¡No te me mueras!"

[Stu]

Thank you that is clearer.

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

The verb "morirse" has the "se" as an emphasis on the person. One could use just "morir", but then it sounds as the speaker doesn't care.

And "te", in this case, is correctly translated as "on you"; it's used as if the person had done something to you on purpose. Like when in the movies someone says "Don't die on me!", which we would translate as "¡No te me mueras!"

Angelica,
If "se" is reflexive does not "on you" indicate that "te" is an indirect pronoun?
I read that you almost never use a reflexive and and indirect pronoun together.

I saw this below example on one site - is it possible it fits into this category?



The so-called "No fault" or accidental 'se' is related to the reflexive and passive use. For example, in English speakers say:


I drop the keys.

In Spanish, the idea is that it wasn't me who drops them on purpose, the action was not intended to happen. Hence, the action is attributed to the keys, while the 'I' becomes an indirect object.

Se me caen las llaves.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Not all verbs with the suffix "-se" are reflexive. In the case of the verb "morirse" or the construction in the example ("quedarse duro"), its function is merely expressive and just adds emphasis:

- Merezco un premio por mi trabajo.
- Me merezco un premio por mi trabajo.
I deserve a prize for my work.

- Juan fue de vacaciones a la playa.
- Juan se fue de vacaciones a la playa.
Juan went to the beach for the holidays.

- ¿Leíste todo el libro?
- ¿Te leíste todo el libro?
Did you read the whole book?

- Los niños comieron toda la sopa.
- Los niños se comieron toda la sopa.
The children ate all their soup.

In all these examples, the pronominal particle only adds emphasis on the persons performing an action, but they all could have been expressed without it.

The so-called "No fault" or accidental 'se' is related to the reflexive and passive use.

Yes, this is called "voz media". Although it is not the case here, this "accidental se" expresses that the thing happening to the subject either has no known cause or the cause doesn't matter.

- Se acabó el día.
The day is over.

- Se me escapó el ratón.
The mouse slipped away from me.

- ¡Ay, se rompió el florero!
Oh, the vase got broken!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

That "on you" is not implied in the original sentence.

That "te" is a "dativo de interés" or "dativo ético"

se queda = becomes, ends up
se te queda = becomes, ends up (and you have to experience the horror)

Another example on "dativo de interés":

¡Se me casa la nena!

se casa la nena = the girl's gonna marry
se me casa la nena = my girl's gonna marry (and leave my home; the nest is gonna be empty)

I don't understand the dativo de interés
I see that the order of pronouns is RID
so I'd assumed this would be "se" reflective and "te" indirect
Perhaps that is wrong because I know that sometimes "se" suggest "it" or "one" as impersonal, and that would seem to fit with { se queda = becomes, ends up } "one is left with" but how does this function of "se" fit into the RID scheme?

[wrholt]

Originally Posted by Stu

I don't understand the dativo de interés
I see that the order of pronouns is RID
so I'd assumed this would be "se" reflective and "te" indirect
Perhaps that is wrong because I know that sometimes "se" suggest "it" or "one" as impersonal, and that would seem to fit with { se queda = becomes, ends up } "one is left with" but how does this function of "se" fit into the RID scheme?

A. The notion that the order of pronouns is RID is incorrect. According to this RAE article on "pronombres personales átonos", the order of object pronouns is fixed, and it is always:

(1) "se" + (2) 2nd person ("te/os") + 1st person ("me/nos") + 3rd person ("lo/la/le/los/las/les").

The listener/reader must work out which pronoun fills which role (reflexive/pronominal, direct, or indirect) from context; if the context is not enough to work it out, then the speaker/writer will likely avoid using one of the pronouns.

B. "Dativo de interés" is but one of several uses that Spanish "indirect objects" have that English indirect objects do not have. "Dativo de interés" naems the habit of using "indirect object" pronouns to indicate which person has a particular personal interest in the action or outcome of the verb. Your original sentence is an example of "dativo de interés":

¿Y si se te queda duro en la camioneta?

The verb is "quedarse duro": it's a pronominal/reflexive verb, which means that it requires an object pronoun that matches the subject. The fact that the English translation equivalent is not reflexive is irrelevant. In this sentence "te" is an "indirect object" used as an instance of "dativo de interés", and it frequently gets translated into English as "on you".

C. The pronoun "se" is a bit overworked in Spanish; it has a number of uses, and functioning as a reflexive pronoun is just one of them. There are other threads in the forum that have extensive discussions about many of these uses.

[Stu]

Thank you - most informative