Lost opportunity

[Tyrn]

Hi,

Subjunctive and conditional are two things which are still beyond my grasp

How is it possible that hubiera tenido and habría tenido both mean would have had? At least, according to different blocks of exercises on Duolingo?

[pjt33]

I suspect that what's confusing you here is not Spanish but American English, which (at least in some dialects) appears to use would to indicate the pluperfect.

[Rusty]

If the OP's 'would have had' came from Duolingo, they need to fix it. Hubiera tenido and habría tenido can never mean the same thing, just as 'had had' and 'would have had' can never mean the same thing.

I checked and saw that a user of Duolingo posted, on March 5, 2019, that 'Yo hubiera tenido información' was translated as 'I would have had information'. The first response to that post came on July 16, 2019, basically saying that the Spanish was wrong for the English translation given. We could argue about which translation came first later. The point is, one of the two translations was incorrect.

The next response explained that some English and Spanish speakers occasionally mix these two conjugations up, in their respective languages. I have heard these mix-ups myself (in both languages). So, basically, Duolingo has either the wrong Latin American Spanish translation or the wrong American English translation (those are the language styles taught on the site). Which translation to fix is a debate they can have!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I agree with Rusty that both tenses mean different things, but there are moments when "habría" and "hubiera" are used with the same meaning:


- Si hubiera sabido que venías, no habría/hubiera estado fuera de la casa.
If I had known you were coming, I wouldn't have been out of home.


- Si no hubiera comido tanto, no me habría/hubiera enfermado.
If I hadn't eaten so much, I wouldn't have fallen ill.


- La vida ha sido difícil en esta ciudad, pero en otro lugar habría/hubiera sido imposible para mí.
Life has been hard for me, but in any other place it would have been impossible.


- Rodolfo tiene mucho dinero, pero no habría/hubiera tenido tanta suerte sin la ayuda de sus padres.
Rodolfo has much money, but he wouldn't have been so lucky without his parents' help.


- Me pude haber ido al extranjero, pero entonces no habría/hubiera tenido la dicha de conocerte.
I could have gone to a foreign land, but then I wouldn't have been so happy to have met you.


- Si no me hubieras interrumpido, yo habría/hubiera tenido la información a tiempo.
If you hadn't had interrupted me, I would have had the information on time.


Since all of these express condition, they should be all "habría", but common usage takes "hubiera" with the same meaning.

[Tyrn]

I've made another check . Reverso Context makes exactly the same interesting job of the hubiera/habría tenido trouble.

Let me ask: what should hubiera tenido and habría tenido mean when used carefully and by the ( ) book?

These slips in English don't drive me crazy, but in Spanish they do. Not enough foothold, you know .

[Tyrn]

Thanks, Angelica!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Tyrn

Let me ask: what should hubiera tenido and habría tenido mean when used carefully and by the ( ) book?

What they should mean in English:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Hubiera tenido and habría tenido can never mean the same thing, just as 'had had' and 'would have had' can never mean the same thing.

Note that I also said:

Originally Posted by Rusty

... some English and Spanish speakers occasionally mix these two conjugations up, in their respective languages. I have heard these mix-ups myself (in both languages).

Angélica gave examples of the exact case I was thinking of in Spanish (repeating hubiera where habría should have been used). In America English I've heard 'would have had' (conditional) used where 'had had' (pluperfect) should have been used.

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I checked and saw that a user of Duolingo posted, on March 5, 2019, that 'Yo hubiera tenido información' was translated as 'I would have had information'.

That doesn't feel like a full Spanish sentence to me: without context, I would guess that an ojalá has been elided. In that case, at a big stretch, I could see "I would have had" being used as synonymous with "I desired to have" by the kind of speaker who would consider "I will drown and no-one shall save me!" as a declaration of intent to commit suicide rather than a cry for help or a cynical observation. But that's very marginal, and I bring it up only for completeness.

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

...
- Me pude haber ido al extranjero, pero entonces no habría/hubiera tenido la dicha de conocerte.
I could have gone to a foreign land, but then I wouldn't have been so happy to have met you.

I would read that English sentence as suggesting that I would still have met you, but in less happy circumstances. IMO a better translation would be:

I could have gone abroad, but then I wouldn't have had the blessing of meeting you.

If blessing seems too religious, joy or great pleasure could also be substituted.

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

- Si no me hubieras interrumpido, yo habría/hubiera tenido la información a tiempo.
If you hadn't had interrupted me, I would have had the information on time.

I'm guessing the second had was unintended.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Thank you for the corrections, Pjt.
These translations often confuse me, and I wasn't really sure about them. Both sounded good to me at first, but I'll study the constructions more carefully.