The invisible 'demasiado'

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

That I find is an interesting observation. Everyone says Spanish is an easy language to learn, but I'm beginning to find it a bottomless pit of subtle and indefinable differences.

I have heard the same thing - that Spanish is supposed to be so easy to learn. In the middle schools in the US, they push the so-called "better students" to take French (because "it's harder") and the so-called "lesser students" to take Spanish (because "it's easier"). I am finding, though, that the expression of nuance in Spanish, as well as the many multiple ways of saying the same thing to be quite a challenge to learn! (I will also admit that I have never learned ANY French, so I have nothing with which to compare...)

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Perikles: "Ya" is the magic word that makes "demasiado" or "suficientemente" unnecessary, I think.

The sentence is actually saying "ya no tengo que rendirte cuentas (porque tengo 30 años/porque soy suficientemente viejo)".

I love "ya"! I am learning new things about how it is used every day. This conversation about the necessity (or lack thereof) of "demasiado" extremely interesting.

[irmamar]

Nunca se me había ocurrido pensar que usáramos demasiado demasiado poco.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Nunca se me había ocurrido pensar que usáramos demasiado demasiado poco.

[irmamar]

¿O es demasiado decir que existen demasiadas alternativas para decir demasiado? O tal vez estoy hablando demasiado.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by irmamar

¿O es demasiado decir que existen demasiadas alternativas para decir demasiado? O tal vez estoy hablando demasiado.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I love "ya"! I am learning new things about how it is used every day.

There is an odd parallel between Spanish ya and German ja. Everyone knows ja means yes, but 90% of the time it means something entirely different.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

There is an odd parallel between Spanish ya and German ja. Everyone knows ja means yes, but 90% of the time it means something entirely different.

Explain that a bit more, please. (The German part.)

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Explain that a bit more, please. (The German part.)

(Damn) ok - ya has various uses as an adverb. Everyone knows it means already. But it can also be translated as yes, okay, any more, no longer, right now, but, since, as...depending on context.

German ja, also an adverb, is known to mean yes, but can also, and most often is, translated as by all mean, really, at last, from the beginning, after all, well, or as a particle used for emphasis which defies translation.

I'm not saying there is any correspondence between the two words, but there is a striking parallel in their ubiquitous use which determines the direction or force of a clause. The odd thing is that they do not seem to have the same etymology. ya is from Latin iam, already, but ja is not, as far as I can tell, but is related to old English yea and hence yes. I find this rather odd, and, sadly, interesting.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

(Damn) ok - ya has various uses as an adverb. Everyone knows it means already. But it can also be translated as yes, okay, any more, no longer, right now, but, since, as...depending on context.

German ja, also an adverb, is known to mean yes, but can also, and most often is, translated as by all mean, really, at last, from the beginning, after all, well, or as a particle used for emphasis which defies translation.

I'm not saying there is any correspondence between the two words, but there is a striking parallel in their ubiquitous use which determines the direction or force of a clause. The odd thing is that they do not seem to have the same etymology. ya is from Latin iam, already, but ja is not, as far as I can tell, but is related to old English yea and hence yes. I find this rather odd, and, sadly, interesting.

You knew I'd ask!

Thanks for going into detail for me! It is appreciated!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

You knew I'd ask!

Thanks for going into detail for me! It is appreciated!

You are welcome. It's midnight here, past my bedtime, and my brain hurts. Buenas noches .

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

You are welcome. It's midnight here, past my bedtime, and my brain hurts. Buenas noches .

You're home from playing bridge. You posted this about 10 minutes ago or so. And you're still hanging out at Tomisimo (I can see your green circle!) Buena madrugada!!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

There is an odd parallel between Spanish ya and German ja. Everyone knows ja means yes, but 90% of the time it means something entirely different.

Wait. Here, "already" also means yes in some instances.

- You take the potato chips and I'll take the sodas, ok?
- Already!

Is not the same BrE?

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

Wait. Here, "already" also means yes in some instances.

- You take the potato chips and I'll take the sodas, ok?
- Already!

Is not the same BrE?

That must be a NVE thing (Nevada English). I have never ever heard "already" used that way......

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

- You take the potato chips and I'll take the sodas, ok?
- Already!

Is not the same BrE?

Definitely not. It sounds very American. Perhaps a German influence.

Edit: I often hear things like this in American films:
A: Hurry up, we'll be late
B: OK I'm coming already

This is a literal translation into English of German Ich komme ja and I bet this is the reason for this expression, immigrants from Germany in the USA.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Definitely not. It sounds very American. Perhaps a German influence.

Edit: I often hear things like this in American films:
A: Hurry up, we'll be late
B: OK I'm coming already

This is a literal translation into English of German Ich komme ja and I bet this is the reason for this expression, immigrants from Germany in the USA.

I'm German AND American and I've still never heard "already" used as "yes" or as an affirmative answer.

In your example "Okay, I'm coming already", it would only be used like that in a sense of exasperation.

In the same sense, the answer to Chileno's "You take the potato chips and I'll take the sodas, ok?" could be an exasperated "okay already". But I have never heard it used alone as an affirmative response.

[Perikles]

OK, I hear what you say already.

Isn't it in the middle of the night where you are, already?

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

OK, I hear what you say already.

Isn't it in the middle of the night where you are, already?

Yes ..... I'm a bit of an insomniac. And I have a phone with a really good web browser...... You'll often see me answering threads at 3 or 4 o'clock.....

[poli]

Un dicho muy neoyorqino es enough already. El dicho traduce directo
al español con basta ya.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by poli

Un dicho muy neoyorqino es enough already. El dicho traduce directo
al español con basta ya.

YES! I am German, American, and a New Yorker (not from The City, though). We definitely say "enough already"!

[chileno]

I learned that usage in California. Was popular in the 80's.



Maybe I'm wrong.