Sobre vs. Debajo de

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I hope that this isn't considered "back-to-back" posting if I post a second time a week or so later....??





Okay - I'm STILL confused. This one keeps coming back to haunt me!

If my face is toward the television, and my back is toward the sofa, I can say "el sofá está detrás de mí" or I can say "el sofá está atrás...". Right?

And isn't "tras" used in the same sense as "atrás" and "detrás"?

So this morning I was reading about the earthquake in Chili, and something in one of the articles was talking about the danger of tsunamis after this earthquake. The quote went something like this: "Tras el terremoto..."

WAIT!! "Tras" means "after"!!?? I thought it meant "behind"? I don't get this...... (sigh...)

By the way - Lyla - I hope you're still plugging along!

hola laepelba, en el libro de gramática hay lesiones sobre eso, mira a los ejercicios 23-1, 23-3,y 23-7 . SEguro que he visto "tras" usado como "after". espero que te den un poco de claridad

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

hola laepelba, en el libro de gramática hay lesiones sobre eso, mira a los ejercicios 23-1, 23-3,y 23-7 . SEguro que he visto "tras" usado como "after". espero que te den un poco de claridad

1) Explaining Spanish grammar to me IN Spanish is not helpful. It makes me more confused. Sorry, Bob - I know you need to practice. But I'm not as far along as you are, and I don't understand.

2) I have LOTS of Spanish grammar books. What book are you talking about?

3) To me, "behind" and "after" seem to be opposite. How in the world can they be the same word in Spanish? It doesn't seem to me that the context of the sentence would be enough in some cases to avoid confusion.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

1) Explaining Spanish grammar to me IN Spanish is not helpful. It makes me more confused. Sorry, Bob - I know you need to practice. But I'm not as far along as you are, and I don't understand.

2) I have LOTS of Spanish grammar books. What book are you talking about?

3) To me, "behind" and "after" seem to be opposite. How in the world can they be the same word in Spanish? It doesn't seem to me that the context of the sentence would be enough in some cases to avoid confusion.

Sorry, I meant to say there are some lessions with tras, detrás, ect. in the practice makes perfect, complete spanish grammar.

Escribiré un poco con las traducciones
Im going to write some with the translations

La policía va tras el fugitivo
The police go after the fugitive

Doy un paso hacia atrás
I take one step back (towards behind)

(Se usa "detrás de" cuando el objeto está detrás de un otro objeto)
(You use "detrás de" when the object is behind another object)

El gato está detrás del coche
The cat is behind the car

Piensa en eso como,
Think of it like,

Detrás de - behind an object, the cat went behind the man, ect.
Atrás - backwards (hacia atrás = backwards / towards back / towards behind
Tras - after, or behind an event, like the earthquake, ect.

.. No te puedo explicar muy bien, pero quizás te ayuda
I can´t explain it well, but this should help

As a preposition that shows the spatial relationship between two things, behind is expressed by detrás de in the sense of something being in back of something else

Si tuviera preguntas, las contestaría
If you have any questions I will try to answer them

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

13) To me, "behind" and "after" seem to be opposite. How in the world can they be the same word in Spanish? It doesn't seem to me that the context of the sentence would be enough in some cases to avoid confusion.

I think Bob may be confusing tras and detrás / atrás.

Behind (=to the rear of)
detrás de Peter - behind Peter (not a bodypart)

After (following in time) después de
After (in sequence) tras
Cometieron un error tras otro.

In the sense of a sequence, I can see why behind and after are almost the same.

Does that help? (Edit: Bob hadn't posted when I started this!)

Another edit:

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Si tuviera preguntas, las contestaría
If you have any questions I will try to answer them

Bob, I don't think this is correct. What you have written is a hypothetical question - if you were to have probs ....
What you need is a neutral 'if' :- si tienes preguntas .... because she might or might not.

[bobjenkins]

Perikles , he editado mi hilo, todavía me equivoco , si es así, yo lo aprendería correctamente

EDITAR.
If you have questions, I would answer them. Sí tienes razón, aún en inglés no tiene razón,

quizás

Si tienes preguntas, puedo contestarlas

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I think Bob may be confusing tras and detrás / atrás.

Behind (=to the rear of)
detrás de Peter - behind Peter (not a bodypart)

After (following in time) después de
After (in sequence) tras
Cometieron un error tras otro.

In the sense of a sequence, I can see why behind and after are almost the same.

Does that help? (Edit: Bob hadn't posted when I started this!)

Another edit:
Bob, I don't think this is correct. What you have written is a hypothetical question - if you were to have probs ....
What you need is a neutral 'if' :- si tienes preguntas .... because she might or might not.

I guess that my confusion lies in that I would think that, in sequence, behind and after are the opposite. If the sequence is "0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, ..." I would say that "3 is behind 5" and that "8 is after 5". How would you say those things in Spanish, using "tras"?

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I guess that my confusion lies in that I would think that, in sequence, behind and after are the opposite. If the sequence is "0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, ..." I would say that "3 is behind 5" and that "8 is after 5". How would you say those things in Spanish, using "tras"?

I tthink it would be "3 is before 5"

3 está antes 5

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

I tthink it would be "3 is before 5"

3 está antes 5

Well, yes, I would prefer to say "before" than "behind", but I used "behind" because of the context of the conversation. IF using the word "behind" in this context, that's how I'd use it.....

In fact, just to make sure that no one worries about my students - I avoid using "in front of" and "behind" when talking about mathematical sequences just for that reason!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I think Bob may be confusing tras and detrás / atrás.

Behind (=to the rear of)
detrás de Peter - behind Peter (not a bodypart) <---funny!

After (following in time) después de
After (in sequence) tras
Cometieron un error tras otro. - They made an error one after the other

In the sense of a sequence, I can see why behind and after are almost the same.

Does that help? (Edit: Bob hadn't posted when I started this!)

Another edit:
Bob, I don't think this is correct. What you have written is a hypothetical question - if you were to have probs ....
What you need is a neutral 'if' :- si tienes preguntas .... because she might or might not.

Originally Posted by laepelba

I guess that my confusion lies in that I would think that, in sequence, behind and after are the opposite. If the sequence is "0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, ..." I would say that "3 is behind 5" and that "8 is after 5". How would you say those things in Spanish, using "tras"?

You are right Lou Ann, however, now that I have highlighted with red some of Perikles's answer, does it help you to sort out your doubts?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I guess that my confusion lies in that I would think that, in sequence, behind and after are the opposite. If the sequence is "0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, ..." I would say that "3 is behind 5" and that "8 is after 5". How would you say those things in Spanish, using "tras"?

That's a surprise - I have never heard "3 is behind 5" in that sequence. I would always say "3 is before 5" and "8 is after 5" because you are reading left to right. I think I need to wait for someone else to give us the correct Spanish.

By the way, the 11 should be 13

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by chileno

You are right Lou Ann, however, now that I have highlighted in red some of Perikles's answer, does it help you to sort out your doubts?

PD. Las palabras que terminan con "S" sólo necesitan " ´ " , por lo menos en inglés de los EEUU
Bob's
Chris'

Chileno, ya no estoy seguro de lo que dije tiene razón, ¿puedes mirarlo para mí, por favor ? gracias por adelantado


Lo he escondido

Hidden Text: Show/Hide

Click to show hidden text - Da click para revelar el texto oculto

La policía va tras el fugitivo
The police go after the fugitive

Doy un paso hacia atrás
I take one step back (towards behind)

(Se usa "detrás de" cuando el objeto está detrás de un otro objeto)
(You use "detrás de" when the object is behind another object)

El gato está detrás del coche
The cat is behind the car

Piensa en eso como,
Think of it like,

Detrás de - behind an object, the cat went behind the man, ect.
Atrás - backwards (hacia atrás = backwards / towards back / towards behind
Tras - after, or behind an event, like the earthquake, ect.

PD- If someone said "3 is behind 5" then I picture a 3 physically sitting behind a 5 (like number blocks that kids play with)

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

That's a surprise - I have never heard "3 is behind 5" in that sequence. I would always say "3 is before 5" and "8 is after 5" because you are reading left to right. I think I need to wait for someone else to give us the correct Spanish.

By the way, the 11 should be 13

You are SO right - 13!! I was typing quickly. DOH!!

Yeah - my students always want to say "behind" and "in front of", and I think that's confusing, so I try to change the vocabulary to "before" and "after".

Chileno - I understand the example of "one error after another". But in that case, the order of errors doesn't necessarily matter. I'm talking about when the order of something matters. It seems to me that "behind" and "after" are quite distinct, and that "tras" and "detras" are quite opposite....????

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

It seems to me that "behind" and "after" are quite distinct, and that "tras" and "detras" are quite opposite....????

Actually, I think your problem is the odd English expression you use - 'behind' in the sense of 'in front of'. This isn't English to me. For me, behind and after kind of overlap, so I'm unsurprised about tras and detrás.

I would say that Train no. Y comes behind Train no. X (on the same platform) but I could equally as well use after in that sentence.

[chileno]

Bob: Perikles is a=one name, it isn't plural.

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

PD. Las palabras que terminan con "S" sólo necesitan " ´ " , por lo menos en inglés de los EEUU
Bob's
Chris'

Chileno, ya no estoy seguro de lo que dije tiene razón, ¿puedes mirarlo para mí, por favor ? gracias por adelantado


Lo he escondido

Hidden Text: Show/Hide

Click to show hidden text - Da click para revelar el texto oculto

La policía va tras el fugitivo
The police go after the fugitive

Doy un paso hacia atrás
I take one step back (towards behind)

(Se usa "detrás de" cuando el objeto está detrás de un otro objeto)
(You use "detrás de" when the object is behind another object)

El gato está detrás del coche
The cat is behind the car

Piensa en eso como,
Think of it like, (or "as")

Detrás de - behind an object, the cat went behind the man, etc.
Atrás - backwards (hacia atrás = backwards / towards back / towards behind
Tras - after, or behind an event, like the earthquake, etc.

PD- If someone said "3 is behind 5" then I picture a 3 physically sitting behind a 5 (like number blocks that kids play with)

Everything's ok

Chileno - I understand the example of "one error after another". But in that case, the order of errors doesn't necessarily matter. I'm talking about when the order of something matters. It seems to me that "behind" and "after" are quite distinct, and that "tras" and "detras" are quite opposite....????

Lou Ann, I am not sure how is it that you are looking at this problem. But I agree with Perikles.

[bobjenkins]

Creo que es así,

Chris' cat
Bob's cat
Jess' kitten

"s's"

Pd. No encuentro una regla para eso , pero asi me enseñaron

[chileno]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Creo que es así,

Chris' cat
Bob's cat
Jess' kitten

"s's"

Pd. No encuentro una regla para eso , pero asi me enseñaron

I think it is

Chris's cat
Bob's cat
Jess's kitten

I guess we need someone else to straighten us up?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

I think it is

Chris's cat
Bob's cat
Jess's kitten

I guess we need someone else to straighten us up?

Here goes. pjt33 will not approve.

Personal names: In all monosyllables and disyllables, and in longer words accented on the penult:

Burns's
Charles's
Cousins's
Dickens's
Thomas's
Zacharias's

BUT

It is customary to omit the 's' when the last syllable is pronounced /-IZ/

Bridges'
Moses'
Jesus'

And in classical names (because of different genitive Greek endings)

Xerxes' fleet
Demosthenes'
Socrates'

I could go on about French names and others, but it starts getting complicated.

[laepelba]

Hmmm.... I'll have to keep noodling with the "behind" vs. "after" ideas......... Thanks for helping me, guys!