Gender Inclusive Language

[AutumnBreeze]

I was studying the other night when I came across a section in my grammar book that mentioned alternative ways to phrase things in Spanish in light of current debate about gender-inclusive language. Por ejemple:

Los niños empiezan el colegio a los cinco años. (Children start school at age five.)

A more politically correct way to say this would be:

Los niños y las niñas empiezan el colegio a los cinco años.

Now personally, I don't do PC. I just take a look at each unique day with its own unique situations and just go with life in a way that makes sense to me . However, some people are really into the PC thing.

Anyway, in Spanish-speaking cultures is making sure things are gender inclusive more of an issue since the rise of PC culture? Or have you really not noticed that much of a difference where you are?

Just curious . I've gotta run out the door so I'm typing fast. Sorry for any typos or if something I've said does not make sense!

[Ambarina]

There is some debate about PC language here where genders are concerned but it's not an easy subject. It makes language cumbersome to have to keep talking about "los niños y las niñas", "los señores y las señoras", "los padres y las madres", "los hombres y las mujeres", etc.
Not too long ago a member of parliament talked about "los miembros y las miembras" trying to get the two genders in, when the word "miembras" does not exist and the press had a field day.
In terms of professions, a lot of words in the language were male oriented as the posts were traditionally held by men. Now that there are more women, the language has changed to talk about "la jueza, la ministra". In professions where it was traditional for both sexes to work there are separate words: profesor/a. But some words for professions have female (a) endings even if it was traditionally a male profession, i.e. policía, tenista, futbolista, guardia. A man or a woman tennis player = tenista. The ending does not change only the article: la tenista or el tenista. Why couldn't the same be done for other professions: la juez or el juez, el/la abogado. I think it would save a lot of hassle.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by AutumnBreeze

I was studying the other night when I came across a section in my grammar book that mentioned alternative ways to phrase things in Spanish in light of current debate about gender-inclusive language. Por ejemple:

Los niños empiezan el colegio a los cinco años. (Children start school at age five.)

A more politically correct way to say this would be:

Los niños y las niñas empiezan el colegio a los cinco años.

Now personally, I don't do PC. I just take a look at each unique day with its own unique situations and just go with life in a way that makes sense to me . However, some people are really into the PC thing.

Anyway, in Spanish-speaking cultures is making sure things are gender inclusive more of an issue since the rise of PC culture? Or have you really not noticed that much of a difference where you are?

Just curious . I've gotta run out the door so I'm typing fast. Sorry for any typos or if something I've said does not make sense!

As you have said, the books texts teach you alternatives ways to write the language in different ways, and well, sometimes the books are written for the people who does this books has one preparation before, therefore, I believe that the books are good alternatives to learn whatever, anyway you muss to keep in mind the hints of the people and teachers too.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Ambarina

There is some debate about PC language here where genders are concerned but it's not an easy subject. It makes language cumbersome to have to keep talking about "los niños y las niñas", "los señores y las señoras", "los padres y las madres", "los hombres y las mujeres", etc.
Not too long ago a member of parliament talked about "los miembros y las miembras" trying to get the two genders in, when the word "miembras" does not exist and the press had a field day.
In terms of professions, a lot of words in the language were male oriented as the posts were traditionally held by men. Now that there are more women, the language has changed to talk about "la jueza, la ministra". In professions where it was traditional for both sexes to work there are separate words: profesor/a. But some words for professions have female (a) endings even if it was traditionally a male profession, i.e. policía, tenista, futbolista, guardia. A man or a woman tennis player = tenista. The ending does not change only the article: la tenista or el tenista. Why couldn't the same be done for other professions: la juez or el juez, el/la abogado. I think it would save a lot of hassle.

Most likely it will be accepted sooner than later. As you pointed, it is being used already, it is a matter of time.

[explorator]

In Spain there is a hard debate about PC language, specially since the socialists came to power six years ago and established a so called "Ministry of Equalty". Till then, we had heard just a few extemists, saying the spanish language was sexist and criticising the classical gramatical male gender as not marked and accurated for both gendres names and adjectives. Well nowadays the PC language is compulsory in politics and press and the use of padres y madres where before was enough with padres, or jueces y juezas, ciudadanos y ciudadanas, etc, is common. The young ministress of equalty Bibiana Aído, has invented new weird words, as "miembras", "jóvenas", etc. In fact, the Spanish novelist and Spanish Language Academy member, Arturo Pérez Reverte, published not a long time ago, an article explaining how, a bussines man from Galicia, who had published an advertising looking for an accountant, had to remove and rewrite it including that he wanted a male or female accountant under the threat of being sued by sexual discrimination made by a govern official.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AutumnBreeze

Los niños empiezan el colegio a los cinco años. (Children start school at age five.)

A more politically correct way to say this would be:

Los niños y las niñas empiezan el colegio a los cinco años.

Sorry, I find any attempt at altering a language because of some sad sex issues (like for example using the word gender instead of the correct word sex) is pandering to the pathetic. Nobody uses the word 'actress' any more - why not?

Originally Posted by AutumnBreeze

However, some people are really into the PC thing.

Then they should get a life, and stop making up artificial problems for others.

Sorry, but I find that almost all problems in life are caused by other people just being stupid. This issue is a good example.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Sorry, I find any attempt at altering a language because of some sad sex issues (like for example using the word gender instead of the correct word sex) is pandering to the pathetic.

Same prudishness in Spanish. I wonder what these people do with the old-fashioned expressions: "el sexo débil" and "hacer las labores propias de su sexo".

[hermit]

Ha! Good one Angelica.

Eventually, might we suppose that the electronic age and our ever-increasing modes of communication will morph terms like 'el juez' to 'la juez' when it makes cultural sense to accept it into general use?

[irmamar]

Although "la juez" is a term that sounds well to my ears, it's said "la jueza".

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Hermit:

"La juez" was widely used in Mexico, but lately they use "la jueza", and lately they avoid the word "poetisa" and say "la poeta".

[xchic]

Judging Amy - an American TV programme - is shown here dubbed into Spanish & the title is La Juez Amy.

Also at some point APA (Asociación de Padres de Alumnos) became AMPA (Asociación de Madres y Padres de Alumnos).

I don't know if this was a nod to PC, or if it was because there were usually more madres than padres on the commitees

[explorator]

If I were a woman judge, I'd try to be "la mejor entre todos los jueces", instead of "la mejor de las juezas". I think the first phrase is more general, than the second one, and I don't Know what kind of logic uses the feminist movement to foster the use of both gendres in every phrase.

[bobjenkins]

No lo entiendo por qué unas personas quisieran que nosotros lo escribamos así. Me parece que nadie no tiene las intentiones de menospeciar a las mujeres por escribir "los padres , etc." Siempre se necesita a fabricar problemas no necesarias para molestarnos .

[explorator]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

No lo entiendo por qué unas personas quisieran que nosotros lo escribamos así. Me parece que nadie no tiene las intentiones de menospeciar a las mujeres por escribir "los padres , etc." Siempre se necesita a fabricar problemas no necesarias para molestarnos .

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

No lo entiendo por qué algunas personas quisieran/quieren que nosotros lo escribamos así. Me parece que nadie no tiene las intentiones de menospeciar a las mujeres por escribir "los padres , etc." Siempre se necesita a fabricar/inventar problemas no innecesarios para molestar(nos) .

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by chileno

Gracias por las correcciones

[xchic]

Originally Posted by explorator

If I were a woman judge, I'd try to be "la mejor entre todos los jueces", instead of "la mejor de las juezas". I think the first phrase is more general, than the second one, and I don't Know what kind of logic uses the feminist movement to foster the use of both gendres in every phrase.

True feminists don't - especially in Spanish - if only because la mejor entre todos los jueces would include all judges - male & female & la mejor de las juezas would only be the best of the female judges.

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

No lo entiendo por qué unas personas quisieran que nosotros lo escribamos así. Me parece que nadie no tiene las intentiones de menospeciar a las mujeres por escribir "los padres , etc." Siempre se necesita a fabricar problemas no necesarias para molestarnos .

Except in this case - because just saying padres could be understood as fathers, and excludes mothers!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins
No lo entiendo por qué unas personas quisieran que nosotros lo escribamos así. Me parece que nadie no tiene las intentiones de menospeciar a las mujeres por escribir "los padres , etc." Siempre se necesita a fabricar problemas no necesarias para molestarnos .

Originally Posted by xchic

Except in this case - because just saying padres could be understood as fathers, and excludes mothers!

As always, it depends on the context it is used.

After all "las palomas" also includes palomos. Same thing with "Padres" that includes "Madres".

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I also agree with chileno, explorator and Bob.

[hermit]

Feminism aside, "la juez" or "la jueza" both sound good to me as natural refinements in a living language.