The conditional used to communicate probability or conjecture

[laepelba]

I am working on a section in my workbook about the Spanish conditional. One of the comments is that conditional can be used to communicate probability or conjecture when referring to a past time or activity with verbs like decir, estar, haber, ser and tener. The following examples are given:
- Estaríamos ocupados cuando llamaste. (We were probably busy when you called.)
- Habría unos veinte autos. (There were approximately twenty cars.)
- ¿Cuánto costaría el traje que compró Ricardo? (I wonder how much the suit Ricardo bought cost.)

Can you please provide me with some examples with verbs like decir and tener? And some others, if you care to? Thanks!!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Can you please provide me with some examples with verbs like decir and tener? And some others, if you care to? Thanks!!

Here is one for tener, with an imperfect indicative as comparison:

En aquel tiempo yo tenía doce años
At that time I was twelve

En aquel tiempo yo tendría doce años
At that time I must have been twelve

[bobjenkins]

el año pasado lo he dicho- last year I said that
el año pasado lo habría dicho- last year I probably/must´ve said that

[irmamar]

Yo diría que el chico que trajo el paquete era pariente tuyo.
¿Dirías que me queda bien este bolso con este vestido?

Tendría veinte años cuando te conocí.
Tendría en cuenta otros factores antes de decidir.

[Ambarina]

Using Perikles example with "decir"

Digo que tiene doce años - I'm saying he's twelve years old.
Diría que tiene doce años - I'd say he's twelve/he's probably twelve/he must be twelve

[poli]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Yo diría que el chico que trajo el paquete era pariente tuyo.
¿Dirías que me queda bien este bolso con este vestido?

Tendría veinte años cuando te conocí.
Tendría en cuenta otros factores antes de decidir.

I honestly thought that the conditional should be accompanied by the
past subjunctive. So I would say: Tendría veinte añps cuando te conociera?
Am I wrong?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Some others, as requested.


Serían las cuatro cuando sucedió el accidente.
The accident must have happened at four.

¿Qué querría el señor que tocó a la puerta? Cuando abrí, se echó a correr.
I wonder what the man who knocked on the door? He ran away when I opened it .

¿Por qué Juan no me hablaría? ¿Estará enojado?
Why wouldn't Juan talk to me? I wonder if he's angry.

-- ¿Qué cantaría Gian Marco en el concierto? (I wonder what Gian Marco would have sung in the concert.)
-- Yo creo que cantaría canciones de su último disco. (I think he sang songs from his last album.)

A los niños les enseñarían mal a resolver estas ecuaciones. Es la única explicación que encuentro a que ninguno entienda lo que les explico ahora.
Children must have been taught bad to solve these equations. That's the only explanation I find to the fact that no one understands what I'm explaining now to them.



@Poli: Subjunctive doesn't fit all the cases when conditional is used.
"Tendría veinte años cuando te conocí" is something that did happen in the past, but I'm not sure about when exactly, so I make an approximation of the age I had back then.


Some cases with conditional-subjunctive:

Querría que me dijeras qué te molesta.
I'd like you to tell me what bothers you.

Disculpe, ¿podría decirle al mesero que me traiga la cuenta?
Excuse me, could you tell the waiter to bring me the check?

Mi mamá ha comprado tantos billetes de lotería que me gustaría que un día se la ganara.
My mother has bought that many lotto tickets, that I would like her to win some time.

Haría lo que fuera para que mis hijos se coman las verduras.
I would do anything so my children would eat the vegetables.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

¿Qué querría el señor que tocó a la puerta? Cuando abrí, se echó a correr.
I wonder what the man wanted who knocked on the door. He ran away when I opened it.

-- Yo creo que cantaría canciones de su último disco. (I think he would have sung songs from his last album.)

A los niños les enseñarían mal a resolver estas ecuaciones. Es la única explicación que encuentro a que ninguno entienda lo que les explico ahora.
Children must have been taught to solve these equations incorrectly. That's the only explanation I can find why no one understands what I'm explaining to them now.

Mi mamá ha comprado tantos billetes de lotería que me gustaría que un día se la ganara.
My mother has bought so many lotto tickets, that I would like her to win some time.

Haría lo que fuera para que mis hijos se coman las verduras.
I would do anything to get my children to eat their vegetables.

A little correction and more colloquial wording above.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Thank you, Rusty!
I'll try to stay more attentive at the word order.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by poli

I honestly thought that the conditional should be accompanied by the
past subjunctive. So I would say: Tendría veinte añps cuando te conociera?
Am I wrong?

Just in conditional sentences ("if" sentences):

Si tuviera veinte años, me iría a dar la vuelta al mundo.
Si hubiera estudiado más, tendría más oportunidades en el mundo laboral.

[laepelba]

Sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner. THANKS, all, for your examples and suggestions here. I have some specific questions about your examples...

Originally Posted by irmamar

Yo diría que el chico que trajo el paquete era pariente tuyo. I would probably say that the boy that brought the package was a relative of yours.
¿Dirías que me queda bien este bolso con este vestido? Would you say that this purse goes well with this dress?

Tendría veinte años cuando te conocí. I was probably twenty years old when I met you.
Tendría en cuenta otros factores antes de decidir. I have no idea what this sentence means other than taking other factors into account before making a decision.......

Irma - remember that my Spanish isn't as good as many others' around here. I need translations to understand. Please tell me if what I wrote for these examples are correct.....

How does the sentence about the dress imply probability/conjecture?

Originally Posted by Ambarina

Using Perikles example with "decir"

Digo que tiene doce años - I'm saying he's twelve years old.
Diría que tiene doce años - I'd say he's twelve/he's probably twelve/he must be twelve

But does the conditional (diría) imply the probability? I thought that sentence would mean that the probability is in the "tiene", which is NOT in the conditional.........

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Some others, as requested.

¿Por qué Juan no me hablaría? ¿Estará enojado?
Why wouldn't Juan talk to me? I wonder if he's angry.
- Again, in this, is it the conditional (hablaría) that implies the probability/conjecture? It seems like it's the "por qué" that does so. Why wouldn't it be "estaría" in the response?

-- ¿Qué cantaría Gian Marco en el concierto? (I wonder what Gian Marco would have sung in the concert.)
-- Yo creo que cantaría canciones de su último disco. (I think he sang songs from his last album.)
I am SOOOooooooooo sad that I missed out on that GianMarco concert here in DC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you AGAIN!!! (Can't believe you brought up the GianMarco concert.... I was just starting to let go..........)

[Ambarina]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Digo que tiene doce años - I'm saying he's twelve years old.
Diría que tiene doce años - I'd say he's twelve/he's probably twelve/he must be twelve

But does the conditional (diría) imply the probability? I thought that sentence would mean that the probability is in the "tiene", which is NOT in the conditional.........

There's no possibility or probability implied with "tiene", it's a statement.

It's the first part of the sentence that states whether there is a doubt.
If is say "digo" there is no doubt. I am stating that I know that the boy is twelve years old. A blunt example would be because you are his mother.

If I say "diría" there is doubt. I am stating that I am 99% sure he's twelve but that 1% of doubt is enough to use the conditional.
An example: you're looking at a photograph and something in the picture leads you to believe that the boy is the age you state, eg you were on holiday together at the time the picture was taken. You make a mental calculation and you say:
"I would say he's twelve in this picture - Diría que tiene doce años en esta foto". It's probable not certain. There's a niggling doubt, like you don't know his DOB.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Ambarina

There's no possibility or probability implied with "tiene", it's a statement.

It's the first part of the sentence that states whether there is a doubt.
If is say "digo" there is no doubt. I am stating that I know that the boy is twelve years old. A blunt example would be because you are his mother.

If I say "diría" there is doubt. I am stating that I am 99% sure he's twelve but that 1% of doubt is enough to use the conditional.
An example: you're looking at a photograph and something in the picture leads you to believe that the boy is the age you state, eg you were on holiday together at the time the picture was taken. You make a mental calculation and you say:
"I would say he's twelve in this picture - Diría que tiene doce años en esta foto". It's probable not certain. There's a niggling doubt, like you don't know his DOB.

So, maybe a more accurate translation would be something like "I would probably say that he is ten years old" .... ??

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

So, maybe a more accurate translation would be something like "I would probably say that he is ten years old" .... ??

But that isn't real English, unless it it is part of an open conditional construction. What you mean is "I say that he is probably ten years old".

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

But that isn't real English, unless it it is part of an open conditional construction. What you mean is "I say that he is probably ten years old".

Right - I know that's not what we would say. But if the "probability" part of the sentence is the "diría" and not the tener, then I was trying to understand the exact translation, not the practical one.....

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Thank you AGAIN!!! (Can't believe you brought up the GianMarco concert.... I was just starting to let go..........)

Sorry about both examples:

First: "¿Por qué no me hablaría?" does not use conditional to communicate probability or conjecture.
The sentences I wrote there can be used when you've seen someone that's supposed to talk to you but he didn't. "¿Estará enojado?" is trying to figure out the reason why he didn't talk to you.
However, the reply to both questions could actually be a suitable use of conditional for the topic: "Estaría enojado (y por eso no me habló)" -> He must have been angry --and that's why he didn't talk to me.

Second: I didn't think I'd make you sad again. My apologies.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Sorry about both examples:

First: "¿Por qué no me hablaría?" does not use conditional to communicate probability or conjecture.
The sentences I wrote there can be used when you've seen someone that's supposed to talk to you but he didn't. "¿Estará enojado?" is trying to figure out the reason why he didn't talk to you.
However, the reply to both questions could actually be a suitable use of conditional for the topic: "Estaría enojado (y por eso no me habló)" -> He must have been angry --and that's why he didn't talk to me.

Second: I didn't think I'd make you sad again. My apologies.

No apologies necessary - it's all in good fun. I am the fool who didn't think to get the tickets in advance. I knew about the concert several weeks before when it was first announced. (sigh.....)

Thanks for the further explanation. I think I have a general handle on the conditional, but want to be sure I get the nuances. It's a neat tool.