grammer question from a movie

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

I'm sorry I don't have an opinion about agradar / to please, because (I lack the English part of it.) Do you mean: I don't understand how it works in English?
But I know that agradar works the same way as gustar, with an OI:
(A mí) me agrada(n)
(A ti) te agrada(n)
Etc.
(So I don't think we are very far apart from the same question). This doesn't make sense in English. Do you mean, Regarding this, our opinions are very much the same? Lexically, of course, they're very similar. Grammatically they work different.
I think the point is, to produce the Spanish expression without thinking about the English version. However, if you are a translator, or an interpreter, you may need to compare how the two languages work. What do translators think about it?

Some corrections


Alfonso,
Me parece que haya dos (probablamente mas) modos de aprender un idioma. Uno es, oir y oir y repetir sin estudiar los detailles del idioma. Así los niños aprenden. Un otro modo es estudiar el papel de los verbos
nombres, pronombres, etc. Personalmente, creo que cuando aprenda
un segundo idioma es una buena idea estudiar los detailles de los
dos idiomas. Así el destino (facilidad de comunicar sin pensar y sin traducir) se alcansa mas facilmente. Por eso, estudiar la funcion de gustar , like, to be, ser, estar, etc. sea importante y evite frustración y confusión en el futuro.

Poli
Favor de corregirme. Gracias.

[Alfonso]

Thanks a lot for your corrections, Poli.

Here there are some for you:

Originally Posted by poli

Alfonso,
Me parece que hay dos (probablamente más) modos de aprender un idioma. Uno es, oír y oír y repetir sin estudiar los detalles del idioma. Así aprenden los niños. Otro modo es estudiar el papel de los verbos, nombres, pronombres, etc. Personalmente, creo que cuando aprendo un segundo idioma es una buena idea estudiar los detalles de los dos idiomas. Así el destino (facilidad de comunicar sin pensar y sin traducir) se alcanza más fácilmente. Por eso, estudiar la función de gustar, like, to be, ser, estar, etc. es importante y evitará frustración y confusión en el futuro.

Poli
Favor de corregirme. Gracias.

Why do you think that studying the two languages you will reach more easily your communication skills in your goal language?

I lack the English part of it. I meant I can't say exactly what's the meaning of to please, although I know how it works. I'm really sceptic about the meaning of words, especially those which are not my mother tongue.

(So I don't think we are very far apart from the same question). Two questions are close: the relationship between to please and gustar, and the relationship between to please and agradar. Sure it's wrongly expressed. How would you say this?

Thanks a lot!

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Thanks a lot for your corrections, Poli.

Here there are some for you:


Why do you think that studying the two languages you will reach more easily your commutations skills in your goal language?

I lack the English part of it. I meant I can't say exactly what's the meaning of to please(I dont know the exact meaning of the verb to please, although I know how it works. I'm really sceptic about the meaning of words, especially those which are not my mother tongue.

(So I don't think we are very far apart from the same question). Two questions are close: the relationship between to please and gustar, and the relationship between to please and agradar. Sure it's wrongly expressed. How would you say this?
the differences between the verbs to please and gustar, and the verbs to please and agradar are not that great
Thanks a lot!

I have a question: In English we can say, The book was liked by many. That is the passive
way of saying, Many liked the book.

Would it be possible to say, El libro estaba/era gustado por muchas?
I have never heard it, but it seems possible .

Poli

[Iris]

No... sounds terrible. Sorry. We don't use the passive very often in Spanish (a lot less than in English).

[Alfonso]

It's not possible el libro es gustado por muchos since in el libro le gusta a muchos there is not a direct object to turn into a subject to get a passive phrase. This is one of the reasons why you're following a false path if you compare grammatically two verbs, gustar and to like, gustar and to please, or agradar and to please. They mean the same, but they work absolutely differently.

The comparison you've made makes you think erroneously. That's what I mean when I say it's not clarifying this kind of comparison, unless you get to the conclusion that they work differently. If you get this... Great!

Take the verb gustar as it's in Spanish. If you tell me an English verb with the same meaning and the same complements... we'll make a good comparison. Does it exist? I don't think so...

Thanks a lot for your corrections, Poli.

[Alfonso]

Iris... Do I have to punish you?

Originally Posted by Iris

No... sounds terrible. Sorry. We don't use the passive very often in Spanish (a lot less than in English).

I've been working hard on this!
It's not that it sounds terrible because we don't use passive forms so often as you do in English. It's, simply, that it's not a passive form at all. It's incorrect. Pls, analyse it, and take care

[Iris]

I stand corrected. Sorry,boss.

[poli]

Very good. There are just a few adverb corrections

Originally Posted by Alfonso

It's not possible el libro es gustado por muchos since in el libro le gusta a muchos there is not a direct object to turn into a subject to get a passive phrase. This is one of the reasons why you're following a false path if you compare grammatically two verbs, gustar and to like, gustar and to please, or agradar and to please. They mean the same, but they work absolutely differently

The comparison you've made makes you think wrong things (or erroneously in place of wrong things). That's what I mean when I say it's not clarifying this kind of comparison, unless you get to the conclusion that they work differently. If you get this... Great!

Take the verb gustar as it's in Spanish. If you tell me an English verb with the same meaning and the same complements... we'll make a good comparison. Does it exist? I don't think so...

Thanks a lot for your corrections, Poli.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Gracias

Poli

[poli]

I hesitate to bring this subject back to he forefront, but ,eurecka, I have discovered the exact English equivalent to gustar! It is the compound verb: to be pleasing. Example: The book(subject) is pleasing(verb) to me (indirect object). It's equal to: Me (objecto indirect) gusta (verbo) el libro(subjecto). Each word has the same function in Englsh as is does in Spanish.

Yo no sé como no me ocurrió antes.

[Tomisimo]

Yep, that's right. If you think about it like that, it's easier to get a grasp of gustar and other gustar-like verbs.

[canyonff]

Alfonso, I have a question for you about the following:

Originally Posted by canyonff

gracias por la ayuda Rusty. After I read your first post It made me remember there was a special way to deal with gustar and similar verbs so I checked a site I visit frequently for a quick refresher. So I understand it now.

me gustan los fantas
?le gusta el fanta?
me gusta a Maria.

I'm heading to bed now, but I'll check out your other link tomorrow. thanks again.

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Some small corrections for you, Canyonff

Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonff
me gusta la fanta.
¿le gusta la fanta?
me gusta María.

what was wrong with me gustan los fantas other than the definative article? I see it should have been las, but why did you make it to a singular sentence?

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by canyonff

what was wrong with me gustan los fantas other than the definative article? I see it should have been las, but why did you make it to a singular sentence?

I think it's pretty much the same as English, where you would say "I like Pepsi" in the singluar and not "I like Pepsis". As a side note, the definite article is needed in Spanish, whereas in English, you don't use it.

[canyonff]

wait fanta is only a brand name? as in the same Fanta drinks we have in the states? I thought "Fanta" as a brand name was just a play on a spanish word. I thought in the context i used it in it could mean "a drink" or "the drinks." i.e. do you like them? Yes, I like the drinks."

[Rusty]

I've not been in Mexico, but according to what I can find on the Internet, Mexicans say refresco or chesco for a soda (pop). In Central America, they use both refresco and gaseosa.

Fanta is a brand name. I suppose you could ask for una Fanta and get one from any merchant, but I don't think the word implies any soda (pop) that the merchant sells.

Here in the U.S., there are some who use the word Coke as if it had the same meaning as cola, and others go so far as to associate the word with all brands and flavors of soda. They order a 'Coke' without even expecting the cola product expressly made by the folks at Coca-Cola. This same kind of misassociation happens with Kleenex, Rollerblades, and many other products.

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by canyonff

what was wrong with me gustan los fantas other than the definative article? I see it should have been las, but why did you make it to a singular sentence?

Hi, Canyonff. I think your question has already been answered by David and Rusty. I agree with what they've said.
It can be added that Fanta, Coke, water, sand, sun, cream, wine, etc. are uncountable nouns, as much in English as they are in Spanish.
So, you say: el agua, el vino, la fanta... when referring to the whole stuff and not to una botella de... I think in English it works the same.

Maybe there are some mistakes. Pls, tell me!

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by poli

I hesitate to bring this subject back to he forefront, but ,eurecka, I have discovered the exact English equivalent to gustar! It is the compound verb: to be pleasing. Example: The book(subject) is pleasing(verb) to me (indirect object). It's equal to: Me (objecto indirect) gusta (verbo) el libro(subjecto). Each word has the same function in Englsh as is does in Spanish.

No sé cómo no se me ocurrió antes.

Congratulations, Poli!
But, if you say that to be pleasing is a verb, you'll have to admit that to be nice is also a verb.

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Congratulations, Poli!
But, if you say that to be pleasing is a verb, you'll have to admit that to be nice is also a verb.

It's been awhile since I have gotten this deeply involved in grammar but
I believe it works this way:

To be pleasing is a verb phrase (several words put together that have the function of a verb) . Pleasing is an adverb describing the verb
to be in a very specific way really changing the meaning of the verb to be in a given sentence. I do not believe to be nice is a verb phrase, although it may be. I believe that nice describes the subject not the verb to be and is therefore an adjective. For example: She is nice--- nice describes she. It does not describe is.

Poli

[Alfonso]

Good attempt, Poli! I think we should change some annoying grammar rules for you to be right .

Meanwhile, let's admit that pleasing is an adjective, as many dictionaries and grammar books say. Allow me not to get into this... Pls.

Anyway, I think yours is a good comparison, despite the fact that you cannot say to be pleasing is a verb. What's the difference if it's not a verb. At least, the whole phrase works as you need to understand how me gusta works.

Books are pleasing to me.
Los libros me gustan.

This book is pleasing to her.
Este libro le gusta (a ella).

I think it works perfectly, doesn't it?

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Good attempt, Poli! I think we should change some annoying grammar rules for you to be right .

Meanwhile, let's admit that pleasing is an adjective, as many dictionaries and grammar books say. Allow me not to get into this... Pls.

Anyway, I think yours is a good comparison, despite the fact that you cannot say to be pleasing is a verb. What's the difference if it's not verb. At least, the whole phrase works as you need to understand how me gusta works.

Books are pleasing to me.
Los libros me gustan.

This book is pleasing to her.
Este libro le gusta (a ella).

I think it works perfectly, doesn't it?

Just a few corrections

[Alfonso]

Thanks a lot for your corrections, Poli. I realise it's not the first time that you correct some of them (can not / cannot). I'll try to do my best!