Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Just think: would you like to be pulled away from your school, from your classmates, from your teachers and from your friends and be closed among four walls, with no friends, mates or teachers, just your mom or your dad, alone with your textbook as the only company of, maybe, that goldfish that, like you, goes round, and round and round?

Imagine that you're a child learning at home. You have no friends, of course. Imagine that once you go for a trip with some children of your age that you have never seen before. How would you feel? Take into account that if you have never been well socialized, you have not the needed tools (es correcto pero me suena más natural decir algo así, "don´t have the required skills" to have a normal relationship with anotherother people, because the only people that you have ever met have been your own overprotective parents, and that's all. And you're there, in a corner, alone, thinking of the goldfish that you left at home, your only friend.

Are you sure that the knowledge is just in textbooks? I've learnt a lot from my books and from my family, of course. But I've also learnt so many things from my friends, from my teachers, and from the people I've met along / throughout my life, even those people that I've met for a few minutes, sometimes they've taught me something.

Open your eyes and you'll see; listen, and you'll hear; talk with other people, and you'll learn. But you'll never learn anything closed between four walls, with a goldfish as your only friend, sad, so sad as you, so ignorant as you.

Tu inglés está mejorando muchísimo!

PD People es plural, mientras person es singular
With other people - With another person
because the only people that you have ever met have been - because the only person that you have ever met has been

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Originally Posted by irmamar

Bob, en español: "pez de colores". La carpa es muy grande para tenerla en una pecera.

Gracias

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Tu inglés está mejorando muchísimo!

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Gracias

Gracias, Bob, por las correcciones.

¡Qué pececito más bonito!

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Gracias, Bob, por las correcciones.

¡Qué pececito más bonito!

No hay de qué

¿Porqué las peces siempre hacen unos gestos divertidos ?

[irmamar]

¡Bob! ¿Eres tú?

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by irmamar

¡Bob! ¿Eres tú?

If I was a fish , surely I would look like this!

[Jessica]

also, some kids like us have to get up very early, if they were home schooled, there would be no need for that. but I understand your side too

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

If I was a fish , surely I would look like this!

Be careful with your sister's cat. Igual te aterriza.

Originally Posted by Jessica

also, some kids like us have to get up very early, if they were home schooled, there would be no need for that. but I understand your side too

But this is not a excuse. I get up early, but I go to sleep early, too.

Please, tell me: would you change your life?

[Jessica]

I wouldn't want to home school because I already go to a public school. but people who never went to a public school and are home school..I think that's different

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by jessica

i wouldn't want to home school because i already go to a public school. But people who never went to a public school and are home school..i think that's different

ok.

[poli]

Germany forbids homeschool because of their monstrous past history. I assume Spain has similar reasons. They fear that many people who home school their children would do so because they have sympathies with the Nazi past. Understandably Germany doesn't want a generation of home-schooled Nazis roving the country.

The United States does not have a history of totalitarian government to look back on, but we do have history of a horrible civil war and the issues of the civil are very much alive in American politics.

There are many reasons why parents may wish to homeschool some of which are justifiable, but many who do resent having their children exposed to contemporary occidental world views and look to simple (and stupid and segregated) fascist solutions of the past.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

If I was a fish , surely I would look like this!

If I were a fish .... for those learning BrE

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by irmamar

If children don't go to school and they are not related with another children, you will have a generation of American hikikomori. Furthermore, which parents are enough educated to teach their children? I don't think there are parents enough educated to teach all the subjects children must learn. Have they studied pedagogy and psichology to be a teacher? And parents... don't they work?

I go to a church where many of the families choose to home school their children. I'll start by saying that I don't agree with many of the reasons that are given for homeschooling children. But the educational background of the parents doesn't always seem to factor into the success/results. In fact, many, many families quote solid statistics that show that (on average), homeschooled children do better on standardized tests than (on average) public school children do. There are MANY, MANY "programs" or curricula available to parents that are specifically geared for homeschool situations. When "discussing" (i.e. trying not to "argue") with homeschool parents, I don't ever bring up "quality of education" because that isn't typically questioned or questionable.

Originally Posted by Jessica

some parents don't work...maybe one parents does the teaching other parents goes to work

also with children interacting with others, they get to go on field trips

if the children are young it will be easier to teach them

The question of whether parents work is really something that "gets" to me. My work in the schools is all about trying to make education "equitable" for all - or as equitable as is possible. There are some churches in the United States that make their members feel like they are harming their children if they do NOT homeschool. (It makes me almost glad I don't have children (don't EVER quote me on that!) so that I don't have to experience that pressure!) Besides the OTHER arguments that I have with that practice (there are MANY), it really really really bothers me that you can only have families that have enough income to be a single income family so that one parent can stay home with the kids. So single parents, or families with little income even with two adult workers simply can NOT homeschool. So those families are made to feel terrible for being "bad parents". It is truly NOT an equitable system - as the homeschool families are obviously the families of "means". So, it's almost an exclusive "club", and there should be nothing exclusive or "club-like" about education. (By the way - I'm not a fan of private schools, either.)

Originally Posted by Jessica

parents can use textbooks

Florida has a law that a homeschooled child may play for a school in the district they live in. Laws like that are slowly becoming more popular.

A lot of areas now have homeschooling groups where kids take field trips together or parents share in the teaching responsibility. As far as actually homeschooling kids, if it's done right, I think there's nothing wrong with it. Certainly, for some kids, it's a much better choice than a more traditional school setting.

I also know of groups of homeschool families that hire teachers for high school subjects - they will rent a room in a church or private school in the evenings and the teacher will come and teach, say, mathematics, or science, etc. to a group of students, each of whose parents pay the teacher directly, like a tutor.

I also know many home school teenagers who are allowed to take courses (designed for home school kids) at the local community college. To me, that seems to defeat the purpose!

Originally Posted by irmamar

Just think: would you like to be pulled away from your school, from your classmates, from your teachers and from your friends and be closed among four walls, with no friends, mates or teachers, just your mom or your dad, alone with your textbook as the only company or, maybe, that goldfish that, like you, goes round, and round and round?

Imagine that you're a child learning at home. You have no friends, of course. Imagine that once you go for a trip with some children of your age that you have never seen before. How would you feel? Take into account that if you have never been well socialized, you have not the needed tools to have a normal relationship with another people, because the only people that you have ever met has been your own overprotective parents, and that's all. And you're there, in a corner, alone, thinking of the goldfish that you left at home, your only friend.

Are you sure that the knowledge is just in textbooks? I've learnt a lot from my books and from my family, of course. But I've also learnt so much things from my friends, from my teachers, from the people I've met along my life, even those people that I've met for a few minutes, sometimes they've taught me something.

Open your eyes and you'll see; listen, and you'll hear; talk with other people, and you'll learn. But you'll never learn anything closed between four walls, with a goldfish as your only friend, sad, so sad as you, so ignorant as you.

Irma - many homeschool families group together with other families so their kids spend a lot of time together during the week. Often, having eliminated the need to physically move from activity to activity, like in a regular school, so much time is saved that "school" can be completed in a few hours (as opposed to 7.5) and the families plan certain afternoons each week to get together or something similar. To say that homeschool kids have "no friends, of course" is a bit extreme.... And often the field trip groups are groups of kids that the kids know very well from family friends or other homeschool kids from their groups.

*********************

You guys have gotten me going ... I've been a professional public school educator for 20 years. Some other thoughts on homeschooling:

- SOMETIMES, homeschooling is a wonderful option. Two examples I have for you: (1) Occasionally there are special needs kids whose needs simply cannot be best met in a public school. I know one family (just one) with a special needs child who was suffering greatly because the public school couldn't give her the one-on-one attention she really needed. She is an extremely shy girl and LOVES her time with her parents. She thrived in a home school setting, and seeing other kids at our church every weekend and once a week at youth group was enough for her socially.... (2) Sometimes military families (or other families who have to move frequently for work) can't stay in the same school district (or even the same state or the same country) through more than one school year. I know several families whose military moves had them moving every two years in the MIDDLE of the school year. Only THE MOST resilient kids can handle starting at a new school every other year. I think that homeschooling is a good option for these families. (3) Sometimes there are specific circumstances that make it best for a family to decide to homeschool one of their children for a specific period of time. I know a family that had all five of their kids in public school. But their #4 child is a sensitive boy who they were concerned about becoming a "follower". They did homeschooling with him for about three years - all in "middle school" (ages 11-13) with the clearly stated intention of returning him to public school for high school. It was a GREAT decision for that young man - and he had strengthened character as a result. So I'm ALL FOR individual decisions for individual kids given individual and special circumstances.

- Now to the empty half of the glass..... I have heard many parents say that they are homeschooling because THEY want to be the ones to teach their children decision-making skills. I would have to say that you cannot teach good decision-making in a sterile environment. As much as my parents hated watching me make mistakes, I am SO MUCH happier now that I made those mistakes THEN, when I was living in their home and came home to them every night after school and was given guidance and encouragement and discipline from them when I made poor choices. If the child is never put in a situation where they have to see the consequences of a bad decision, they really aren't learning any kind of decision-making at all. This especially bothers me in families that homeschool ALL of their children for ALL 13 grades of school (K-12) and then send them away to college. I would hate to think that a student's first "classroom" experience is at college. And to compete with a classroom full of students who have been used to a classroom setting for 13 years. Really? I personally had issues with peer pressure and decision making when I first moved away from home - and my parents guided me through many years of difficult social choices through all my years as a public school student. What would I have done had I been sheltered all my life!!?? You have to meet all kinds of people to learn these things (not just your nice little homeschool group, made up of families exactly like yours!)

- I strongly believe that the more "diverse" a public school is, the better the education will be for all students (if the schools only knew how to best handle the diversity). I am using "diversity" here in MORE THAN a racial sense. Consider the diversity that COULD occur in a public school classroom: racial diversity, socio-economic diversity, ethnic diversity, intellectual diversity, diversity of faith backgrounds, etc., etc. The reality is that our society is becoming more and more "global" every day, as is evidenced here on our "forums" with regular contributors from all over the world - Europe, South America, Central/North America, Africa, and even the Canary Islands!! Just think how amazing that is - we are interacting DAILY with each other from our homes in Washington, DC, Mexico City, Pennsylvania, Spain, Tenerife, Argentina, and so on! How many years ago would such a thing have been unthinkable? When you send your children to public school (instead of keeping them contained in your choice group of homeschool family friends), you are exposing them to many people who are different than they - some in ways that you might not be comfortable with. But isn't that something that they need to learn in order to function in the real world of the future, which will undoubtedly be MORE globally connected than we are even today?

-Okay, one quick note "questioning" the quality of education. I don't worry so much about the higher level courses, because the curricula available to homeschool parents are typically excellent quality. What I DO question is the ability of a non-educator to teach a young child to read and write, which are THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT skills!! Some of the best elementary school teachers struggle with that. How is it really possible for a parent to catch all of the nuances of difficulty in teaching a new reader/writer??

Okay - I could go on typing about this for hours! I have MANY opinions on this topic. But I will spare you having to read any more of my babble. (Sorry, moderators!) I'll be eager to continue to follow this thread!

[Jessica]

wow long post lol


another good thing with home schooling more time with your parent(s)

[CrOtALiTo]

Irmamar and Jessica.

I respect both opinions in your own view point.
Now I'm not agree with the home school, but it's the solution then it's right, already that not everyones has to pay a school albeit the school be public.

Anyhow I respect both opinions.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Jessica

wow long post lol

I told you ... you got me going!!!

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I told you ... you got me going!!!

¿Nos darás una versión español?

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by poli

Germany forbids homeschool because of their monstrous past history. I assume Spain has similar reasons. They fear that many people who home school their children would do so because they have sympathies with the Nazi past. Understandably Germany doesn't want a generation of home-schooled Nazis roving the country.

The United States does not have a history of totalitarian government to look back on, but we do have history of a horrible civil war and the issues of the civil are very much alive in American politics.

There are many reasons why parents may wish to homeschool some of which are justifiable, but many who do resent having their children exposed to contemporary occidental world views and look to simple (and stupid and segregated) fascist solutions of the past.

No, I do not agree with you, at least in Spain. Here it's not forbidden, there is just a legal loophole, there isn't any law about homeschooling. But if you don't carry your children at school, you can even be arrested and lose your parental authority. State takes charge of children education: it's compulsory and free until 16 years. And State is the only organism which can supply everything to a child until 16 years. Later, they can study at home, there are studies at a distance. But children younger than this age should be at school (except in some cases, such as a disease). School is the entrance room to life.

Furthermore, there is freedom of thinking here, you can be from a convinced fascist to an absolute comunist or a perfect anarchist. There's nothing wrong if you obey the laws. Mind is free and State let us think what we want to think. As I said before: teachers teach and parents educate (although children decide to think what they want to think when they grow).

Lou Ann, I agree with you about wat you said about diversity. The more knowledge we acquire in our life, the better we can be developed as persons. I don't think there is much diversity in homeschooling after reading your words. And yes, as you explained, maybe the children are not closed in a room, as I said. But I think we can't compare a big school, with thousand of pupils of different ages, to a small group of family's children of the same age. Activities, contact with other school mates in the recess, contact with different teachers whom you can admire or censure (you can't censure your parents), these are the things that allow us to enter in adult life, to become an adult. Forget overprotection, nature will separate from our parents soon or later, let's learn a bit of independence and personal growth.

[Jessica]

yes but kids can get bullied, home schooling will prevent that

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by Jessica

yes but kids can get bullied, home schooling will prevent that

And we can be dead, not beeing born will prevent that.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by irmamar

No, I do not agree with you, at least in Spain. Here it's not forbidden, there is just a legal loophole, there isn't any law about homeschooling. But if you don't carry your children at school, you can even be arrested and lose your parental authority. State takes charge of children education: it's compulsory and free until 16 years. And State is the only organism which can supply everything to a child until 16 years. Later, they can study at home, there are studies at a distance. But children younger than this age should be at school (except in some cases, such as a disease). School is the entrance room to life.

Furthermore, there is freedom of thinking here, you can be from a convinced fascist to an absolute comunist or a perfect anarchist. There's nothing wrong if you obey the laws. Mind is free and State let us think what we want to think. As I said before: teachers teach and parents educate (although children decide to think what they want to think when they grow).

Lou Ann, I agree with you about wat you said about diversity. The more knowledge we acquire in our life, the better we can be developed as persons. I don't think there is much diversity in homeschooling after reading your words. And yes, as you explained, maybe the children are not closed in a room, as I said. But I think we can't compare a big school, with thousand of pupils of different ages, to a small group of family's children of the same age. Activities, contact with other school mates in the recess, contact with different teachers whom you can admire or censure (you can't censure your parents), these are the things that allow us to enter in adult life, to become an adult. Forget overprotection, nature will separate from our parents soon or later, let's learn a bit of independence and personal growth.

To play devil's advocate (because I really, obviously, don't advocate in favor of home schooling...), I have to point out a couple of things:
- In the United States, there are laws regulating home school situations. They are very closely scrutinized, and the students MUST pass specific tests given by the governing bodies on a very regular basis.
- In the United States, education is free to age 18 for those who choose public school education, and compulsory for all children, public school, private school, or home school. If parents cannot prove that their children are being educated, there are most certain legal consequences.
- There is no such thing as "unbiased" education, and often times, the parents who choose to home school disagree with the content and approach of the public school system (in general) in the United States. For example, parents who do not want their children learning sex ed. at school, but prefer to teach them these things at home. Or parents who don't want their children to learn evolution because they believe in creation. Etc.....