British English vs. American English

[Awaken]

After watching hours and hours of Top Gear over the last few weeks on NetFlix, I officially feel bad for Spanish speakers trying to learn both BrE and AmE. I knew before that there was a difference in vocabulary between the two, but now I have heard so much change in the pronunciation of words as well. There is a difference in where the emphasis/accent is placed in many words as well that can really throw you off.

I'm starting to fully grip how the different dialects of Spanish can be so different since it exists in my own language.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Awaken

After watching hours and hours of Top Gear over the last few weeks on NetFlix, I officially feel bad for Spanish speakers trying to learn both BrE and AmE. I knew before that there was a difference in vocabulary between the two, but now I have heard so much change in the pronunciation of words as well. There is a difference in where the emphasis/accent is placed in many words as well that can really throw you off.

I'm starting to fully grip how the different dialects of Spanish can be so different since it exists in my own language.

I understand both because I lived in England for a while, and let me tell you, there are many more differences in vocabulary among the Spanish spoken in the various countries than in all of English. Not so much the accent, of course.

[Rusty]

The differences you've detected are because we don't share the same pronunciation for a number of the consonants and vowels. From my point of view, a Spanish speaker will find British English easier to pronounce.

I'm sure you've noticed that we spell a number of words differently, too. At least there is one standard spelling of the Spanish language.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Rusty

The differences you've detected are because we don't share the same pronunciation for a number of the consonants and vowels. From my point of view, a Spanish speaker will find British English easier to pronounce.

I'm sure you've noticed that we spell a number of words differently, too. At least there is one standard spelling of the Spanish language.

That's 100% correct, dear Rusty..

As for the British English being easier to pronounce, that depends. I have a hard time understanding Scottish accent.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

As for the British English being easier to pronounce, that depends. I have a hard time understanding Scottish accent.

Scottish also has significant vocabulary differences, partly based on Celtic influences. They have some interesting linguistic fossils, for example another word for "to know" which is "to ken", from the Germanic kennen to know a person, cognate with conocer.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Scottish also has significant vocabulary differences, partly based on Celtic influences. They have some interesting linguistic fossils, for example another word for "to know" which is "to ken", from the Germanic kennen to know a person, cognate with conocer.

Interesting. Yes, they have some peculiar words. And the accent... geez... Of course it depends on the person. My best friend when I was there was Scottish and I didn't have any problems understanding her. But her parents... whew!!! Maybe it was because she had lived in England for a few years.

[aleCcowaN]

"Totally unprepared are you
To face a world of men
Timid and shy and scared are you
Of things beyond your ken
You need someone older and wiser
Telling you what to do
I am seventeen going on eighteen
I'll take care of you!"

Sixteen Going On Seventeen (The Sound of Music - 1965 - USA)

[poli]

...and that was written by Oscar Hammerstein. He was no Scottish lad.

[Perikles]

Yes, the word is not unkown in English, but archaic. ("Do you ken John Peele?....") It is just that Scottish uses it regularly even today.

[aleCcowaN]

I see!

I found that the differences between different North American accents and vocabulary are no near as great as the regional accents and vocabulary one can hear in the British Isles. To my amazement I've recently heard two people from different Southern counties in England, plain people who earn a living through a very old trade -one of them fished eels with wicker traps- and their accents were remarkably similar to those of the folks one may find in the Appalachians, and very different to the plethora of accents that one associates with English people and Welsh.

[funkcanna]

I am originally from the North East of England. The dialect we speak there can literally be completely different in possibly 80% of the vocabulary in a given conversation to that elsewhere. Its an odd mix of Scottish/Yorkshire/English and even some Irish! Thats not even to mention our accent!

"Areet wor lad, yee gannin doon toon th'neet? A divvint kna. Aye nee bosh nowts a botha"

Obviously a lot of the words can be understood but coupled with our accents, a lot of other English speakers find it hard to understand us. I also find that the further south you go in England, the easier people are to understand and the more uniform their accents (excluding Cockneys!). In my experience, people from England have the largest variation of dialects amongst English speakers, but I am not familiar much with American dialects. However, I now live in the UAE and the Americans I know all seem to be very similar in regards to their vocabulary as opposed to the Brits I know.

[Esperar]

I don't think the differences are very big at all. They're very minor. I've never had any problems speaking with Americans. If you learn English English, or American English, you can speak to anyone who speaks in English.

[poli]

Originally Posted by Esperar

I don't think the differences are very big at all. They're very minor. I've never had any problems speaking with Americans. If you learn English English, or American English, you can speak to anyone who speaks in English.

.... provided the speaker makes concessions for you. I have notices that some native speakers speaking amongst themselves can be very hard to understand to strangers. If you ever visit New Orleans, you will notice this.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by poli

.... provided the speaker makes concessions for you. I have notices that some native speakers speaking amongst themselves can be very hard to understand to strangers. If you ever visit New Orleans, you will notice this.

I totally agree with you.

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by poli

If you ever visit New Orleans, you will notice this.

Indeed. But General American English, and RP are quite intelligible, and all though they have some phonetic differences, they are very minor. Whenever I watch a show where the people use RP (or something close to it), after a few minutes, I stop even noticing that they are speaking with a different accent. It just sounds normal.

Interestingly enough, I noticed that the easiest accent in Spain to understand, are people from the Canarian islands, which is ironic, because a lot of people from Spain complain about the Canarians' accents. The s aspiration thing doesn't bother me at all anymore, because I've heard it so much from Latin Americans.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Interestingly enough, I noticed that the easiest accent in Spain to understand, are people from the Canarian islands, which is ironic, because a lot of people from Spain complain about the Canarians' accents. .

What ???? It's more of a speech defect than an accent. They just miss out all endings, some beginnings and some middles of words, making them sound demented. I have to try and live with it, and fail miserably.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

What ???? It's more of a speech defect than an accent. They just miss out all endings, some beginnings and some middles of words, making them sound demented. I have to try and live with it, and fail miserably.

I feel for you.

[poli]

Originally Posted by Perikles

What ???? It's more of a speech defect than an accent. They just miss out all endings, some beginnings and some middles of words, making them sound demented. I have to try and live with it, and fail miserably.

It sounds very much like Caribbean Spanish.

[Caballero]

Let's see. As far as I can gather, they often aspirate the s's (or change the vowel quality before the s) at the end of words. So, what? They do the same in Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, etc. All you have to do is mentally re-add the s's, which I have to do anyway when I listen to Spanish from most parts of South America.
They elide the -d-, just like they do in Chile and other countries.
-They have seseo, like all dialects of Spanish in the world, except for part of Spain.
-They elide -r- in parece, quieres, padre, and madre (which can be heard in other places too like Andalusia)
-They drop some final consonants, which happens in lots of other countries in Latin America.
-Some pronounce ch as sh. They do that in Chile, and several other countries.
-Some l's and r's are interchanged.
-They soften their j sound.
-The vocabulary and grammar are much like Latin American varieties.

The most noticeable difference between a Canarian Spanish and a "Latin American neutral" (basically the Mexicans-speaking-more-carefully) accent, is the -s at the ends of words, either being pronounced like h, or the vowel quality changing to indicate the s being elided. The other features really aren't as frequent.

It's pretty much like a lot of Latin American accents. It sounds a lot more familiar to me than in places with distinción or ceceo, which give me pause, as I have to mentally transpose all voiceless th sounds as s's. Canarian Spanish sounds awfully smooth. Even when they speak fast, it's usually not very difficult to understand it.

I really don't see why people think it is so difficult.

Originally Posted by chileno

I feel for you.

Hmm. You're one to talk. Understanding Chilenos is a lot harder. Most Chilenos I've heard also aspirate their s's too, elide intervocalic -d-, which are pretty much the most salient differences between pronouncing Spanish as spelt, and a Canarian accent. However Chileans also have the Chilean voseo, and a ton of slang words that I can't understand peppered into every conversation. I even have trouble reading Chilean forums on the internet, much moreso than Argentine ones, Mexican ones, Venezuelan ones, etc.

What ???? It's more of a speech defect than an accent. They just miss out all endings, some beginnings and some middles of words, making them sound demented. I have to try and live with it, and fail miserably.

It's probably because you're used to the Castillian accent. But really, it's no harder than understanding Carribean Spanish, and Spanish in much of Central and South America, because they share many of those features.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Let's see. As far as I can gather, they often aspirate the s's (or change the vowel quality before the s) at the end of words. So, what? .

Call me conservative if you like, but this leads to confusion which I can't cope with. For a start it effectively removes any difference between 2nd and 3rd person singular (or 2nd formal) present in verbs. Manageable on its own, perhaps, but combined with other omissions, such as not bothering to close the mouth when attempting an 'm', in fact not bothering to move any facial muscles at all when speaking, you get the TV news reported pronouncing más o menos as a-o-en-o.

The perfect tense is never used, and I have yet to hear any moods other than indicative and imperative. I could go on ....The fact is that a fluent speaker might well find it easy to understand, but a learner is struggling like a Spaniard would who tries to learn English on the Outer Hebrides or Glasgow.