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  #1
Old June 04, 2010, 04:27 AM
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If not
Great fortunes, if not great reputations, are made...

My book translates this sentence into: se hacen grandes fortunas, aunque no gran reputación...

I understand just the opposite: se hacen/se crean grandes fortunas, cuando no/por no decir, grandes reputaciones...

What do you think?

Thanks.
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  #2
Old June 04, 2010, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Great fortunes, if not great reputations, are made...

My book translates this sentence into: se hacen grandes fortunas, aunque no gran reputación...

I understand just the opposite: se hacen/se crean grandes fortunas, cuando no/por no decir, grandes reputaciones...

What do you think?

Thanks.
No. Significa que no solo fortunas pero también reputaciones.
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  #3
Old June 04, 2010, 04:32 AM
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Eso es lo que yo entendía. Gracias.
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  #4
Old June 04, 2010, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Eso es lo que yo entendía. Gracias.
Correcto. Me olvidé de escribir que el libro está mal.
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  #5
Old June 04, 2010, 04:36 AM
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Gracias, Chileno.
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  #6
Old June 04, 2010, 04:37 AM
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I agree, the book is incorrect.
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  #7
Old June 04, 2010, 04:38 AM
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Menos mal que me doy cuenta de los errores... y que puedo consultarlos en este foro, claro.
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  #8
Old June 04, 2010, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
I agree, the book is incorrect.
No. Está mal. (es enfermo de malo)
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  #9
Old June 04, 2010, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
No. Está mal. (es enfermo de malo)
No es que sea malo, es que tengo varios libros. Hasta ahora no había encontrado errores en éste. Bueno, un error tipográfico sí que lo he visto hace un rato.
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  #10
Old June 04, 2010, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
No es que sea malo, es que tengo varios libros. Hasta ahora no había encontrado errores en éste. Bueno, un error tipográfico sí que lo he visto hace un rato.
Es que Perikles corrigió, porque un libro no puede "estar" mal, solo incorrecto.

Medio dormido pero no medio...y medio...
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  #11
Old June 04, 2010, 04:46 AM
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¿Por qué un libro no puede estar mal? Yo creo que sí, que puede estar mal, estar bien, estar fatal, ser horrible, ser maravilloso, ser bueno, ser malo, etc.
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  #12
Old June 04, 2010, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
¿Por qué un libro no puede estar mal? Yo creo que sí, que puede estar mal, estar bien, estar fatal, ser horrible, ser maravilloso, ser bueno, ser malo, etc.
Pero nuestro isleño británico no lo ha puesto/calzado en su cabeza todavía.
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  #13
Old June 04, 2010, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Pero nuestro isleño británico no lo ha puesto/calzado en su cabeza todavía.
¡Ah! Bueno, lo ha dicho en inglés.
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  #14
Old June 04, 2010, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
¡Ah! Bueno, lo ha dicho en inglés.
Exacto.
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  #15
Old June 04, 2010, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Great fortunes, if not great reputations, are made...

My book translates this sentence into: se hacen grandes fortunas, aunque no gran reputación...

I understand just the opposite: se hacen/se crean grandes fortunas, cuando no/por no decir, grandes reputaciones...

What do you think?

Thanks.
Tienes razón. En otras palabras:
Una persona puede acaudular una gran fortuna, pero no se
puede ganar una gran reputación en la misma manera.
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Me ayuda si corrige mis errores. Gracias.
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  #16
Old June 04, 2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Great fortunes, if not great reputations, are made...

My book translates this sentence into: se hacen grandes fortunas, aunque no gran reputación...

I understand just the opposite: se hacen/se crean grandes fortunas, cuando no/por no decir, grandes reputaciones...

What do you think?

Thanks.
It make great fortunes when if there's great reputations.

My attempt.
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  #17
Old June 04, 2010, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Great fortunes, if not great reputations, are made...

My book translates this sentence into: se hacen grandes fortunas, aunque no gran reputación...

I understand just the opposite: se hacen/se crean grandes fortunas, cuando no/por no decir, grandes reputaciones...

What do you think?

Thanks.
I disagree with, I think, everyone else here and agree with the book.
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  #18
Old June 04, 2010, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt33 View Post
I disagree with, I think, everyone else here and agree with the book.
Rubbish. :-)

Grandes fortunas, si no grandes reputaciones, son hechas.

¿Por qué, según tú, está bien "aunque no gran reputación"?
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  #19
Old June 04, 2010, 03:29 PM
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@pjt: Can you explain a bit more what the sentence actually would mean to you in English please?

I also thought that this use of "if not" should be similar to "or at least".
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  #20
Old June 04, 2010, 04:26 PM
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"Great fortunes, if not great reputations, are made..."

Firstly, the subordinate clause between two commas can be removed to get "Great fortunes are made...", so that is clearly entailed by the original sentence.

I take "if not" as creating a contrast. You might expect that along with the great fortunes, great reputations are made: but you would be wrong.

If both great fortunes and great reputations are made:

Great fortunes, and reputations, are made...
Great fortunes, and great reputations, are made...
Great fortunes, not to mention reputations, are made...

Angélica's version ("Great fortunes, or at least great reputations, are made") means that great reputations are definitely made and the fortunes are uncertain.

What I consider to be ambiguous is whether no reputations are made or whether bad reputations are made.


Moving on from just that example, I had a look in BNC for the phrase "if not".

There is a pattern "N is ADJ, if not ADJ" where the second adjective intensifies the first: e.g. "Their targets are modest, if not downright pessimistic." In this pattern the first is true and the second is hypothetical: sometimes implied to be probable, sometimes merely uncertain.

There is a pattern with two verbal phrases covering both sides of a conditional: "If you see Fred tomorrow, ask him to phone me. If not, don't worry: I'll see him on Saturday."

There is the straightforward condition - similar but without the "if" clause. "Heirs to large estates, if not minors, are noteworthy enough for an obituary."

Y hay varios más, pero es hora de acostarme y analizarlos me está costando.
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