Asiento vs. silla

[laepelba]

I was talking with a Salvadoran friend the other day. We were talking about his car, and I said something about "los asientos". He expressed that, although most people use the word "asiento" for car seats, he doesn't like that and thinks that it's rather incorrect. He says that he prefers "silla" for car seats ... he also went on to say that "asiento" used for a "seat" is really only appropriate for un tren, un barco, un avión, etc.

We talked for awhile about other uses of the word "asiento", and he showed me how he really prefers to use "asiento" for inanimate objects (like the bottle of water he was holding while we were talking) - that the bottom of the bottle was "el asiento" ........ which is why he doesn't like using asiento for places where people sit.

It makes some sense to me, but I would love to hear y'all expound on this concept.

Thanks!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I was talking with a Salvadoran friend the other day. We were talking about his car, and I said something about "los asientos". He expressed that, although most people use the word "asiento" for car seats, he doesn't like that and thinks that it's rather incorrect. He says that he prefers "silla" for car seats ... he also went on to say that "asiento" used for a "seat" is really only appropriate for un tren, un barco, un avión, etc.

We talked for awhile about other uses of the word "asiento", and he showed me how he really prefers to use "asiento" for inanimate objects (like the bottle of water he was holding while we were talking) - that the bottom of the bottle was "el asiento" ........ which is why he doesn't like using asiento for places where people sit.

It makes some sense to me, but I would love to hear y'all expound on this concept.

Thanks!

To me seat=asiento and chair=silla

As to the bottom of a bottle being called asiento, is not the first time I hear that, although I prefer to use "el poto" (chilean for culo) and in this case is not offensive at all.

Some people call it "fondo". Now asiento is not wrong either, just that we don't use it like that.

[alx]

Originally Posted by chileno

To me seat=asiento and chair=silla

I agree with Chileno.
I would never say 'silla' to mean 'car seat'.
By the way, RAE gives lots of meanings for 'asiento'.
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltCons...3&LEMA=asiento

[Elaina]

I agree with ....

seat = asiento
chair = silla

things that accumulate at the bottom of a container = asientos

[ROBINDESBOIS]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I was talking with a Salvadoran friend the other day. We were talking about his car, and I said something about "los asientos". He expressed that, although most people use the word "asiento" for car seats, he doesn't like that and thinks that it's rather incorrect. He says that he prefers "silla" for car seats ... he also went on to say that "asiento" used for a "seat" is really only appropriate for un tren, un barco, un avión, etc.

We talked for awhile about other uses of the word "asiento", and he showed me how he really prefers to use "asiento" for inanimate objects (like the bottle of water he was holding while we were talking) - that the bottom of the bottle was "el asiento" ........ which is why he doesn't like using asiento for places where people sit.

It makes some sense to me, but I would love to hear y'all expound on this concept.

Thanks!

Gosh!!!!!! Where did learn Spanish ? Silla is chair and asiento seat, de toda la vida.

Culo de botella está bien pero suena un poco vulgar, de echo existe la expresión gafas de culo de botella. Fondo suena más educado.

[aleCcowaN]

I agree

seat = asiento

take a seat = tome asiento

automóvil ---> asiento (para más de una persona), butaca (para una persona), asientos (en conjunto)

asiento (en el teatro), localidad (en un estadio donde hay graderías)

chair = silla

asentaderas, posaderas = buttocks
asiento, poso, sedimento = dregs

Lou Ann, I guess your friend is having a problem with noa words (maybe it's the way they use in El Salvador). Every language has its taboo words (words that are banned or people simply feel inhibited to use because an emotional aversion driven by social custom) so people use instead noa words (the opposite to taboo; the safe way to refer to the same concepts). You can't say culo (taboo) but it's safe saying trasero. Sometimes the noa word is abused so it becomes taboo itself. From your conversation with your friend I gather asiento (possible noa word for culo) might be losing its safeness so it looks kind of dirty in a way people would be needed of a new noa word. Silla provides the new safe word.

taboo: culo de botella (bottom of the bottle; thick glasses, coke bottom glasses) ---> noa: fondo de botella

[laepelba]

When you say "noa", is that like "euphemism"?

[Rusty]

noa word = any word free of any significant taboo in a particular language (etymology: from the Hawaiian noa, which means 'free')

Also,
noa = noroeste argentino (Argentine northwest region)

[laepelba]

Ahah!!! Thanks!

[aleCcowaN]

Yes, Lou Ann. Rusty explained it well. Noa is free, and in this case the safe way that allow everybody to refer to the same concept without using the taboo word.

What I failed to explain is that I don't think silla is a noa word as asiento (seat) isn't taboo, but I suspect your friend -or his Spanish speaking area- is somewhat thinking asiento has lost its 'freshness'. What you wrote ("that the bottom of the bottle was "el asiento" ........ which is why he doesn't like using asiento for places where people sit") including ellipsis.

________________________________________

A couple of comments for those who are curious about this taboo-noa thing and the evolution of languages.

The Indoeuropean word for moon was close to moon, but many groups considered it to be bad luck so they felt forced to name it indirectly. "Luna" (related with "light") and "selene" (the one that shines) were the safe replacements in Latin and Old Greek as in "lunar" in English or "selenita" in Spanish. However, Spanish word "mes" still relates to the forbidden word for "moon". I'm not sure if it was English or/and some of its Germanic relatives, but "hare" was really bad luck so the current word for "hare" comes from "from the fields" or "the greyish" -different words among the same language family is often an evidence of this-. Here in Buenos Aires we use "el/la que te jedi" to name a person so distrusted or despicable that is treated like it is bad luck to name h/im-er.

[poli]

So the English word hare is related to the Argentinian term jedi? Anyway the English equivalent of él/la que te jedi appears to be he's/she's a jinx.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

The Indoeuropean word for moon was close to moon, but many groups considered it to be bad luck so they felt forced to name it indirectly. "Luna" (related with "light") and "selene" (the one that shines) were the safe replacements in Latin and Old Greek as in "lunar" in English or "selenita" in Spanish. .

I can’t resist commenting here. As far as I know, there is no evidence that the word Μήνη (=Moon) was avoided by the Greeks and substituted by Σελήνη for reasons of some kind of taboo. The latter is indeed much more common (4113 occurrences in exant literature in the nominative, the former only 206) The latter was named by Hesiod as a moon-goddess, and the name presumbly took over. Do you have an academic reference for a discussion of this claim?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by poli

So the English word hare is related to the Argentinian term jedi? Anyway the English equivalent of él/la que te jedi appears to be he's/she's a jinx.

Poli, "jedi" is a vesre (al revés) for dije --> "el que te jedi" = "el que te dije" (meaning that the 'unmetionable one' has been already mentioned)

Originally Posted by Perikles

I can’t resist commenting here. As far as I know, there is no evidence that the word Μήνη (=Moon) was avoided by the Greeks and substituted by Σελήνη for reasons of some kind of taboo. The latter is indeed much more common (4113 occurrences in exant literature in the nominative, the former only 206) The latter was named by Hesiod as a moon-goddess, and the name presumbly took over. Do you have an academic reference for a discussion of this claim?

Yes, but it's "hard-copy", the title is "Filología indoeuropea", author: W.B. Lockwood (British author), I don't have the translators name, editorial EUDEBA, published by the 80's. I got it now inside one of many boxes containing a few thousand books and written sources I currently can't give shelf space -and time to keep all clean-, so when I "rollodeck" it I'll come back to this thread with proper quotations.

I repeated all by heart. I also remember something about "selene" having suffered the same process and being replaced by another noa word in modern Greek, but I'm not sure of it, so I omitted it.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

Yes, but it's "hard-copy", the title is "Filología indoeuropea", author: W.B. Lockwood

Thanks - the name sounds familiar, and I'm not sure whether his views are still widely accepted, even if they ever were. I'll do some digging.

[poli]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

Poli, "jedi" is a vesre (al revés) for dije --> "el que te jedi" = "el que te dije" (meaning that the 'unmetionable one' has been already mentioned)

Yes, but it's "hard-copy", the title is "Filología indoeuropea", author: W.B. Lockwood (British author), I don't have the translators name, editorial EUDEBA, published by the 80's. I got it now inside one of many boxes containing a few thousand books and written sources I currently can't give shelf space -and time to keep all clean-, so when I "rollodeck" it I'll come back to this thread with proper quotations.

I repeated all by heart. I also remember something about "selene" having suffered the same process and being replaced by another noa word in modern Greek, but I'm not sure of it, so I omitted it.

Are the vesre and jedi examples of Lunfardo? There are several types of this kind of wordplay in English. London's Cockneys are famous for it. Pig Latin is sometimes used in American English and a few words like amscray
and ixnay have kind of found their way into the standard language.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by poli

Are the vesre and jedi examples of Lunfardo? There are several types of this kind of wordplay in English. London's Cockneys are famous for it. Pig Latin is sometimes used in American English and a few words like amscray
and ixnay have kind of found their way into the standard language.

Some vesres have been incorporated to the slang 'lexicon'. Among them some are current, some are dated and some are used by specific social groups. There are dozens, some I can remember now

nouns: gomía (friend / special), yeca (street / current)
adverbs: de dorapa (in a standing position / current)
adjectives: dolape (bald / current)

[poli]

That's fun, but of course it's baffling for us foreigners, but that's the purpose. If you speak bass ackwards you may confound some.