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View Full Version : Dichos
Elaina July 02, 2008, 08:37 PM "Dichos" are the same as "refrán",right?
Idiom = modismo ..... which is not the same as a "dicho", right?
So what exactly is an "idiom"? Is it like words that are used in certain parts of the country? Like............ water fountain in the south but bubbler in the north?
Confused Elaina
:confused::thinking::?::worried:
Rusty July 02, 2008, 09:26 PM Un refrán is a proverb, sometimes called a saying, a byword, or an adage. It is a condensed, but memorable expression that embodies important experience taken as truth by many people.
Un dicho is an idiom, also known as an idiomatic expression, a set phrase, a phrasal idiom, or a phrase. It is an expression whose meaning cannot be inferred from the meanings of the words that make it up.
Un modismo is another word for an idiom (un dicho).
Words that are used in a particular area are known as regional words or variants. Your example of bubbler being used in the Northern United States for a drinking fountain is a good example of a regional word (although I have never heard the word used). The same thing happens between the Western United States and the Eastern United States - if you're not from the West, you've probably never heard of a barrow pit, for example.
Elaina July 02, 2008, 09:34 PM Muy interesante Rusty, y si te entiendo correctamente, un dicho es un modismo....pero refrán es un "saying" which goes back to being a dicho which is the same as a refrán........etc. etc. etc.
UGH..........help
Elaina:sad::worried::sad::worried:
Rusty July 02, 2008, 09:38 PM That's probably why David didn't create specialized regions in the Idiom Dictionary. All the dichos, sayings, modismos, expressiones, refranes, etc. are grouped together. It's hard to differentiate between them, sometimes.
Elaina July 02, 2008, 09:43 PM Ok.....
1. Más vale pájaro en mano que cientos volando
(a) refrán (b) dicho (c) modismo
2. Ese hombre tomó vino "hasta por los codos"
(a) refrán (b) dicho (c) modismo
3. Si miro a una persona cruzar la calle sin fijarse en el tráfico, le grito: ¡Águas! o íÁguila!
(a) refrán (b) dicho (c) modismo
¿Quién me puede contestar estas preguntas, por favor?
Elaina:cool:
Rusty July 02, 2008, 10:10 PM Ok.....
1. Más vale pájaro en mano que cientos volando
(a) refrán (b) dicho (c) modismo
2. Ese hombre tomó vino "hasta por los codos"
(a) refrán (b) dicho (c) modismo
3. Si miro a una persona cruzar la calle sin fijarse en el tráfico, le grito: ¡Águas! o íÁguila!
(a) refrán (b) dicho (c) modismo
¿Quién me puede contestar estas preguntas, por favor?
Elaina:cool:
Mi intento:
1 (a)
2 (b) o (c)
3 ninguno; son interjecciones usadas en México, así que son variantes regionales (términos locales).
María José July 03, 2008, 01:38 AM Now I'm as confused as Elaina. I always thought dicho meant refrán...
poli July 03, 2008, 05:33 AM This is clearly a question of symantics. Incidentally, is "splitting hairs" a refrán o modismo?:D:rolleyes:
On the other hand (would say modismo) because I'm familiar with word refrain which can mean a line of poetry repeated in the poem. It usually rhymes. In music there refrains which are quite similar to poetic ones. So, I think a refrán might be more of a rhyming or rhythmical(I hope I'm spelling this right) saying or dicho.
An example of one in English is "a stitch in time says nine".
How about platitudes? What's your opinion of platitudes?
Rusty July 03, 2008, 07:21 AM Del DRAE:
refrán: acepción 1 - Dicho agudo y sentencioso de uso común.
dicho: acepción 2 - Palabra o conjunto de palabras con que se expresa oralmente un concepto cabal.
modismo: acepción 1 - Expresión fija, privativa de una lengua, cuyo significado no se deduce de las palabras que la forman; p. ej., a troche y moche.
Marsopa July 03, 2008, 08:46 AM Pero bubbler sólo se usa en WI, no en todo el norte del país...;)
Marsopa
Rusty July 03, 2008, 09:45 AM Pero bubbler sólo se usa en WI, no en todo el norte del país...;)
Marsopa
Gracias por arrojar luz sobre dónde se dice bubbler. Es porque no conozco Wisconsin que no lo he oido. :) ¿Habrá otros estados por ahí en los cuales usarían lo mismo?
poli July 03, 2008, 10:05 AM El el área metropolitana de Nueva York ne se usa bubbler
Tomisimo July 03, 2008, 02:21 PM Pero bubbler sólo se usa en WI, no en todo el norte del país...;)
Marsopa
No se usa bubbler in Washington, Oregon & California. :)
Tomisimo July 03, 2008, 02:47 PM The terms refran, dicho, modismo, idiom, saying etc all have some overlap, and at the same time have some different nuances. Here's my opinion:
1. To me the most general terms are frase hecha and dicho which generally mean set phrase or saying. These terms can be applied to any word/phrase/sentence that is known by many people
Example: Sewing machine (not machine for sewing, machine to sew with)
2. The next level for me is refrán, proverbio or dicho (saying, proverb, maxim, adage etc.) These are short, memorable sentences that describe an idea that many people believe to be true, they are a big part of folk culture.
Example: Early to bed early to rise, makes a man healthy wealth and wise.
3. Now on to idioms (modismo, giro idiomático, idiotismo). Specifically, these are words or phrases whose meaning cannot be deduced from the literal meaning of its component words.
Example: Knock yourself out! (Literally, this would mean hit yourself so that you lose consciousness, but really means go ahead and do something as much as you want.)
Elaina July 07, 2008, 04:47 PM He escuchado la palabra "bubbler" en Michigan.....
Gracias a todos por tratar de explicar la diferencia. Creo que entiendo un poquito más lo del dicho -vs- refrán -vs- modismo........
Pero no crean, aún estoy un poquitito confundida pero ya no tanto.
Elaina:o:o
Tomisimo July 07, 2008, 05:43 PM I think there is a lot of overlap between the terms and they are not mutually exclusive either.
Elaina July 07, 2008, 07:31 PM Thanks David!
For a moment I thought I was being overly "stupid"....:yuck::yuck:
Elaina:sad:
Alfonso July 08, 2008, 12:41 PM Now I'm as confused as Elaina. I always thought dicho meant refrán...
I agree with you, dicho, refrán and proverbio mean the same.
Alfonso July 08, 2008, 12:52 PM Ya sé que el DRAE dice otra cosa, pero, por ejemplo, del Gran diccionario de sinónimos de Fernando Corripio:
Dicho: concepto, máxima, refrán, sentencia, proverbio, aforismo, fórmula, adagio, apotegma, precepto / chiste, ocurrencia, chanza, broma, agudeza.
No creo que deba tomarse el DRAE, ni ningún otro diccionario, como precepto, sobre todo con palabras de uso tan común (otra cosa son los tecnicismos, cultismos, etc). En este caso, el DRAE no refleja el uso más habitual.
Elaina July 08, 2008, 06:10 PM Me encanta cuando hablas sucio.......
"Gran diccionario de sinónimos de Fernando Corripio"
Elaina
:o:o:thumbsup::pelota:
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