Word Stress

[alpinegroove]

I am trying to help someone who is learning Spanish and is having a lot of trouble stressing the correct syllable in each word, especially with 2-syllable words with the first syllable stressed (most present-tense conjugation in Spanish).

In trying to help her, it has become clear that she has the same trouble distinguishing, both in speaking and listening, between different types of word stresses in English as well. It is not a problem in English because she is a native speaker and just knows how to pronounce the words.

She recognizes that there is a difference between SUSpect (noun) and susPECT (verb), but she cannot consisntently discern which word has the first syllable stressed and which one has the last syllable stressed.

In Spanish, she cannot, for instance, consistently hear and reproduce the difference between the present tense first person HABlo and the past tense third person habLO.

So asking her to stress the first syllable when conjugating a verb doesn't really mean anything to her. She seems to understand the theory but is unable to recognize/reproduce consistently.

Any ideas?
Thanks

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by alpinegroove

Any ideas?

But in this respect, Spanish is a million times easier than English, because the written accent always tells you where to stress the word.

If there is NO accent, the word is stressed on the next to last syllable if they end in a vowel, n or s, and on the final syllable if they end with a consonant which is not n or s

Otherwise, the stress is where the accent is. Dead easy.

As far as I can see, this is the only grammatical rule which has no exception.

[aleCcowaN]

Just to speculate a bit on the subject.

If my little experience many English speakers can't tell the difference between a stressed syllable and one with open vowels. When you tell them to plenty pronounce the vowels in unstressed syllables, all syllables become stressed. This is reinforced by English having a rhythm with tonic syllable beating time. Again, when these students plenty pronounce the vowels in unstressed syllables, all those syllables becomes sort of stressed. If she identifies which is the stressed syllable in "monotonous" /məˈnɒtənəs/ but she doesn't in "monótono" /mɔ'nɔːtɔnɔ/, maybe you just need to let her pronounce it /mə'nɔːtənə/ and wait for a better time to correct her pronunciation.

I'm not saying this is the cause; just some thoughts.

[Luna Azul]

If the person doesn't understand the concept it's quite difficult. It doesn't make sense. There are people who just can't learn a foreign language. People who have no ear for music have a very difficult time even pronouncing their native language.

Maybe that's the case with this person. Even if she can read --as Perikles says--, the way the words are written, she cannot perceive the difference.. That's what I understand you're saying, right?

I think you have a difficult task on your hands.. I've no idea what advice to give you..

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

she cannot perceive the difference.. That's what I understand you're saying, right?

Maybe I was responding on the wrong level. If the problem is an acoustic one, then what might help is a little tape recorder where she can record her own voice and compare it with the correct version. The only problem with that is most people run away and drown themselves when they hear their own voice, so you might need some assistance.

[alpinegroove]

Originally Posted by Perikles

But in this respect, Spanish is a million times easier than English, because the written accent always tells you where to stress the word.

The problem is not with knowing the rules or the theory of stressed syllables. She has them all memorized. She usually, but not always, hears the difference between stressing different syllables, but she can't tell which syllable is stressed. She might say HABlo five times, which is correct, but then would say habLO and I would ask her to stress the first syllable and she tells me that that what she is doing.

I do not think that she will be able to indicate which syllable in "monotonous" is stressed. At this point, two-syllable words are difficult enough.

I suppose this could be some kind of learning disability.

aleCcowaN, thanks for the interesting explanation. Please let me know if you have any other ideas.

Originally Posted by Perikles

Maybe I was responding on the wrong level. If the problem is an acoustic one, then what might help is a little tape recorder where she can record her own voice and compare it with the correct version. The only problem with that is most people run away and drown themselves when they hear their own voice, so you might need some assistance.

We will try that. Perhaps when she hears herself pronouncing it, she will get a better feel for it.

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

If the person doesn't understand the concept it's quite difficult. It doesn't make sense. There are people who just can't learn a foreign language. People who have no ear for music have a very difficult time even pronouncing their native language.

Maybe that's the case with this person. Even if she can read --as Perikles says--, the way the words are written, she cannot perceive the difference.. That's what I understand you're saying, right?

I think you have a difficult task on your hands.. I've no idea what advice to give you..

She pronounces English perfectly fine. But if I ask her, which syllable is stressed/emphasized/accentuated in SUSpect as opposed to susPECT, she doesn't know.

She hears the difference between LIsa and liSA, and knows what the syllables are, but when I ask her to pronounce lisa with stress on the first syllable, she doesn't know how to.

[poli]

The way I would introduce her to word stress it first through English.
Example: the noun address(áddress) and the verb address (addréss)

From there your friend may correlate hablo and habló
with address and address.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

The way I would introduce her to word stress it first through English.
Example: the noun address(áddress) and the verb address (addréss).

A very bad example if that person speaks BrE

[poli]

Originally Posted by Perikles

A very bad example if that person speaks BrE

That's true. In fact many American English speakers say the noun and
verb the same way. I used to, but changed for the sake of clarity.

I know there are many other words whose meaning changes with stress
but at the moment I don't recall any. recall of course.

[alpinegroove]

She doesn't. She speaks American English. She recognizes that there is a difference, she just doesn't know how to interpret it.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by alpinegroove

She pronounces English perfectly fine. But if I ask her, which syllable is stressed/emphasized/accentuated in SUSpect as opposed to susPECT, she doesn't know.

She hears the difference between LIsa and liSA, and knows what the syllables are, but when I ask her to pronounce lisa with stress on the first syllable, she doesn't know how to.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. A person with no ear for music, will recognize a song but will never be able to sing it.

I'm telling you this because I know cases like this.

[alpinegroove]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

That's exactly what I'm talking about. A person with no ear for music, will recognize a song but will never be able to sing it.

I'm telling you this because I know cases like this.

She actually sings pretty all right, much better than me. I am hoping that your view is overly pessimistic...

[aleCcowaN]

It looks like some sort of dyslexia, or let me use the word "dyslexia" in a wrong way just to describe one of many ways people have problems to put all the orchestra together in unison. I have my own set of problems about hearing, identifying and remembering, but not just the one you describe, and I have a musical ear pretty much above the average person.

I suggest you to try one approach I used many years ago with a student extremely intelligent but almost impaired to remember mathematical equations. He could analyze, explain and use every equation he had in front of him, but when the visual aid was absent he became numbed. I tried all the rational and irrational aids in my trick bag to no avail. One day, I got sick of the situation and got a couple of sandpapers and explained a bunch of equations to him, carefully but asking him to "write" each equation with a finger on the sandpaper. With the other hand he would "plot" how the values would evolved having we changed every variable in the equations once at a time. I couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe it. He remembered everything -or it looked that way compared to the previous situation-.

But sandpaper is not needed here. You just have to use one sane sense as a sort of crutch to the weak one, so to speak. In the case we are dealing with it may be ruled unsuccessful to reinforce hearing with sound, that is, MARking LOUDly where the stress is. It's better to wave hands and arms like a conductor or to drum fingers on the table: a loud knock with the thumb for the stressed syllable, a gentle wipe with the rest of the fingers for the unstressed ones.

The brain is an extraordinary machinery and strange connections produce these problems but also art and genius.

[alpinegroove]

That's interesting, thanks. She seemed to make some progress when she, without being prompted by me, moved her head to the left when she stressed the "left" (first) syllable and to the right when she stressed the "right" (last) syllable. This still wasn't consistent but seemed better than without it.
We already tried the visual approach, capitalizing the stressed syllable, but that didn't work.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Written accents are the key for knowing how to stress words in Spanish.
According to the syllable where they're stressed, Spanish has three kinds of words: agudas, graves/llanas, esdrújulas.

Palabras agudas: words that are stressed at the last syllable.
Palabras graves: words that are stressed at the second syllable, counting from the last one.
Palabras esdrújulas: words that are stressed at the third syllable, counting from the end of the word.

Here are the simple rules to write accents in Spanish:
The palabras agudas must have a written accent when they end with n, s, or a vocal vowel.
-> presión, cor·tés, amé...
Palabras agudas without a written accent end with any consonant, except n or s.
-> cortar, abril, ciudad...

One must write an accent on palabras graves which end with any consonant, except n or s.
-> cóndor, fútbol, álbum...
Palabras graves without a written accent end with n, s, or a vocal vowel.
-> abren, canto, sueño...

Palabras esdrújulas always bear a written accent.
-> brújula, atmósfera, pánico...


Here are some other threads where this has been discussed.
http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=1450
http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=5939
http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=9721

[alpinegroove]

The problem isn't, at least yet, with the rules but rather with understanding what word stress is and how to identify and produce it consistently.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by alpinegroove

She actually sings pretty all right, much better than me. I am hoping that your view is overly pessimistic...

Ok. No problem. As I said, I know cases, that's why I suggested that. Evidently I was wrong

[poli]

Originally Posted by alpinegroove

The problem isn't, at least yet, with the rules but rather with understanding what word stress is and how to identify and produce it consistently.

I would start with word stress in English and then go to Spanish. If she speaks English, then she instinctively knows word stress rules and how
the word is stressed may change it's meaning. Once that inherant
understanding is materialized on paper, the transfer to Spanish should be
a piece of cake.

[Perikles]

That sounds like a good idea. You could also start with stress within a sentence in English, to make her aware that it does exist, and is important. The difference, for example, between

What is this thing called love? and
What is this thing called, love?

[poli]

Originally Posted by Perikles

That sounds like a good idea. You could also start with stress within a sentence in English, to make her aware that it does exist, and is important. The difference, for example, between

What is this thing called love? and
What is this thing called, love?

Thank you Mr. Porter.