Spanish b/v

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by chileno

hmmm be careful on some of these, they mean the same, what happens is in English they *use* more a meaning than the other but both means the same.

Topic is ONE! I got one! :-)

I know about topic in spanish, and I would have sworn that topico as theme was ok in spanish! :-)


About carpet. And carpeta. In chile means a manila folder. and that's it. when somebody speaks spanglish, then is when carpeta comes out... :/

Thanks Angelica.

Hernan.

You're welcome!

"Tópico" is one of those English words that have made their way somehow into the everyday language... but still not accepted with the "topic" meaning.

You're right about "carpeta". It has more than one meaning... It's obviously not an exhaustive list.
*putting a paperbag on*

As for words with more than one meaning, well, I suppose the idea of identifying false cognates is not to use them interchangeably if they can lead to an amphibology.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

• carpet ("alfombra") = floor covering ≠ carpeta = table cover

"Carpeta" - en inglés: "table cloth"? If so ... that's kind of cool. (¿Cómo se dice "cool" en español?)

[chileno]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

You're welcome!

"Tópico" is one of those English words that have made their way somehow into the everyday language... but still not accepted with the "topic" meaning.

You're right about "carpeta". It has more than one meaning... It's obviously not an exhaustive list.
*putting a paperbag on*

As for words with more than one meaning, well, I suppose the idea of identifying false cognates is not to use them interchangeably if they can lead to an amphibology.

Well, if the meaning in both language comes from latin, meaning the same thing(s), but in one language a meaning is used exclusively and not the others. What would you call that?


Yo ->

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@laepelba: "tablecloth" = "el mantel"

(and one more false cognate for the collection: mantel in English ≠ mantel in Spanish)

"Carpeta" (in this sense) is a smaller cover than a tablecloth, normally decorative, usually knitted, crocheted or embroidered.


@Chileno: These are very similar words in both languages, that ofthen have the same etymologies and related meanings... but languages are independent institutions and obviously they cannot evolve the same way in two different cultures. If it weren't so, there wouldn't be false cognates between Spanish and French or between Spanish and Italian, etc. You see?

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@laepelba: "tablecloth" = "el mantel"

(and one more false cognate for the collection: mantel in English ≠ mantel in Spanish)

"Carpeta" (in this sense) is a smaller cover than a tablecloth, normally decorative, usually knitted, crocheted or embroidered.

Trying to get a mental picture of una carpeta... So, like a table runner? (My mom always has a narrow decorative piece of cloth running the length of her dining room table.) That kind of thing?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Yes, that kind of ornaments... and the smaller cloths you put over smaller tables and other furniture (almost napkin size).

[laepelba]

Ah - like this ...

[chileno]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@laepelba: "tablecloth" = "el mantel"

(and one more false cognate for the collection: mantel in English ≠ mantel in Spanish)

What would that be? :^)

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Chileno: These are very similar words in both languages, that often have the same etymologies and related meanings... but languages are independent institutions and obviously they cannot evolve the same way in two different cultures. If it weren't so, there wouldn't be false cognates between Spanish and French or between Spanish and Italian, etc. You see?

I understand that, however, when you see both definitions as being the same almost point by point (did you like that one?)

What do I have to think?

Rusty, and David. Can you adventure any comment on this?


Hernan.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

In that case, they are not false cognates, are they?

(And did I like it)

[chileno]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

In that case, they are not false cognates, are they?

That's what I've been saying all along. Then why do/did you list them as being false? Ah? ah? aaaaaaaaah?

(And did I like it) [/quote]

because of the big grin I assume you liked it. :-)

Hernan.

[laepelba]

By the way, Malila - did you see that I started a new thread with a new tema por escribir @ http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=3098

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Hmmm...

False cognates: similar words, having often the same etymologies and related meanings, but don't mean exactly the same in both languages.

Other words that are similar, have same etymologies and exactly the same meanings, are not false cognates.

Could you please be more specific about examples of what has been called here a false cognate, but you think it's exactly the same word?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Hmmm...

False cognates: similar words, having often the same etymologies and related meanings, but don't mean exactly the same in both languages.

Other words that are similar, have same etymologies and exactly the same meanings, are not false cognates.

Could you please be more specific about examples of what has been called here a false cognate, but you think it's exactly the same word?

• actual = something existing and real ≠ actual = something that is happening now

• to attend = to be present at some place ≠ atender = to assist

• to assist = to help ≠ asistir = to be present at some place

• compromise = a settlement of differences ≠ compromiso = an engagement

• to molest ≈ to subject to unwanted sexual activity ≠ molestar = to annoy

• sensible ("sensato") = exhibiting good sense ≠ sensible ("sensitive") = capable of perceiving sensations

Look them up and they have exactly the same entries. it is just that in english are not used in full, like in spanish. That's all.

Look in Webster and RAE


Hernan.

[laepelba]

But all of those that you listed are on many lists of "false cognates" that I have found online ... amigos falsos....

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by chileno

Rusty, and David. Can you adventure any comment on this?

Borrowed from a good Wikipedia article:
False cognates are words in the same or another language that are similar in form AND have the same meaning, but do not have the same etymology (root, or origin). Remember, cognate means blood relative. So, false cognates do not have the same root, but happen to mean the same thing.

False friends, on the other hand, are words in two different languages that look similar but mean different things. (False friends may actually share etymologies and are therefore cognates.) Some false friends are partially false, in that at least meaning is still shared between the words.

True cognates have the same root AND the same meaning.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Borrowed from a good Wikipedia article:
False cognates are words in the same or another language that are similar in form AND have the same meaning, but do not have the same etymology (root, or origin). Remember, cognate means blood relative. So, false cognates do not have the same root, but happen to mean the same thing.

False friends, on the other hand, are words in two different languages that look similar but mean different things. (False friends may actually share etymologies and are therefore cognates.) Some false friends are partially false, in that at least meaning is still shared between the words.

True cognates have the same root AND the same meaning.

VERY interesting - because most of the websites use "false cognates" and "false friends" interchangeably. Hmmm.....

[Rusty]

I know. They misuse the terms.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Thank you, Rusty! I thought they were the same.


@Chileno: Hmm... ok... I suppose the idea of knowing when words can be false cognates, is to avoid using them when they create amphibologies.

In the meantime...

You cannot say in Spanish:
"Lo que actualmente está pasando, es que ya no me quieres"
(What actually is happening, is that you don't love me anymore)
It would rather be "lo que realmente pasa..."

And if you said in English:
"My daughter told me her teacher molests her"
You go immediately to the police... not the case at all if you say in Spanish:
"Mi hija me contó que su maestro la molesta"

And as far as I know, "to be sensitive" is not "to be sensible" and "ser sensible" is not "ser sensato".

[chileno]

Rusty and paepelba:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Borrowed from a good Wikipedia article:
False cognates are words in the same or another language that are similar in form AND have the same meaning, but do not have the same etymology (root, or origin). Remember, cognate means blood relative. So, false cognates do not have the same root, but happen to mean the same thing.

False friends, on the other hand, are words in two different languages that look similar but mean different things. (False friends may actually share etymologies and are therefore cognates.) Some false friends are partially false, in that at least meaning is still shared between the words.

True cognates have the same root AND the same meaning.

but these have the same etymology. Look them up ib both: RAE and Webster.


Hernan.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by chileno

but these have the same etymology.

These what?