Hardest thing for you learning a new language?

[brute]

Originally Posted by ElDanés

Just to get everything straight, the correct spelling is ресторан.

Tak. Thank you for the Russian correction. I suspect perhaps they spell it with a T in Bulgaria? By the way - Is is true that Danish pastry comes from Vienna? vienerbroed?

[ElDanés]

Originally Posted by brute

Tak. Thank you for the Russian correction. I suspect perhaps they spell it with a T in Bulgaria? By the way - Is is true that Danish pastry comes from Vienna? vienerbroed?

Du er velkommen!

I had to look up the word in Bulgarian, but it turns out you are right. I tried checking some of the other Slavic languages as well, and it turns out that Bulgarian is the only language which has kept the -т. Bulgarian: ресторант - Macedonian: ресторан - Russian: ресторан - Ukrainian: ресторан - Belarusian: рэстаран - Serbian: ресторан - Bosnian: restoran.

It is not true that all Danish pastry comes from Vienna, but it's true that Wienerbrød does (thus its name which literally translates as Viennabread) The history is actually interesting, or rather funny. It all started in the end of the 1700s when lots of bakers (especially Swiss bakers) migrated to Denmark. The migration was so big, that in the beginning of the 1800s more than 50% of all bakers in Denmark were of a non-Danish background. The government decided to stop this migration in 1820, and then the numbers of non-Danish bakers steadily declined.
However, during the 1850s the bakers working for other bakers as employees began striking because of the bad pay and bad working conditions, but instead of improving, the heads of the backeries instead invited backers from outside the country, which was legal as they were invited, to come to Denmark to work. So once again, especially the Swiss bakers came to dominate in numbers. These bakers didn't just bake the Danish pastry and bread though, but also started baking their own national pastry and bread. The Danish bakers didn't want to accept the Swiss pastry to begin with, but they had to accept it in the end, because they could see that it was what people wanted. The Danish bakers who were striking slowly realized that their striking didn't help much, and returned to their work, and the Swiss had to leave the country... again - but the Swiss pastry stayed.
The formerly Swiss pastry, which I will now call it, has changed a lot over years though. After all, it's more than a hundred years ago. Today the pastry (which we took from the Swiss) is much different than the Swiss pastry they have today in Switzerland. Danish bakers have since then tried improving it in different ways. Believe it or not, several books have been written on the subject - it's almost a science.

[poli]

Now, I wonder if Danish pastry, as I know it, has any resemblence to
Danish pastry in DenmarkMaybe one day I'm go to Denmark and find out.

[brute]

Hej! Hvordan gar det? Thanks for your rapid response el Danés. Your history of the Vienna Bread is very interesting. I suggest that the reason most countries do not use the "T" of restaurant, is that the French don't pronounce it themselves, these just pronounce the "N" nasally. The Japanese say re su tu ra n (They cannot add a "T" anyway without hanging an extra vowel sound on the end!)

[ElDanés]

Originally Posted by poli

Now, I wonder if Danish pastry, as I know it, has any resemblence to
Danish pastry in DenmarkMaybe one day I'm go to Denmark and find out.

Good question. I have only got Danish pastry in Denmark, and never anywhere else, so I wonder too, if what other countries call Danish pastry is the same which we've got here.

Originally Posted by brute

Hej! Hvordan gar det? Thanks for your rapid response el Danés. Your history of the Vienna Bread is very interesting. I suggest that the reason most countries do not use the "T" of restaurant, is that the French don't pronounce it themselves, these just pronounce the "N" nasally. The Japanese say re su tu ra n (They cannot add a "T" anyway without hanging an extra vowel sound on the end!)

Sounds like a reasonable explanation. Etymology sure is interesting. In Danish and Swedish (and probably also Norwegian) the word restaurant (restaurang in Swedish) is pronounced neither with a /t/ nor a /n/ in the end, but with a /ŋ/ (like in the English word finger) The Danish is normally pronounced /ʁɛstˢoʁaŋ/, but when speaking slowly and more formal, /ʁɛstˢauʁantˢ/, which also is closer to the spelling. The Korean equivalent also uses /ŋ/: 레스토랑 (re-seu-to-rang, /ɾesɯtoraŋ/).

Edit:
I forgot to ask whether you have studied Danish or just know a bit? So far, I think I have only spotted one grammatical mistake in all of your posts including Danish, so you seem pretty good at it. And oh, a tip, instead of æ, ø and å, you can use ae, oe and aa. That's how the Danes themselves do when they don't have access to the right letters.

Paa gensyn!

[brute]

Thanks for the corrections and the transliteration tips ae oe and aa. I must get around to setting up a Danish keyboard. A few years ago I taught myself some Swedish because my sister married a Swede. The marriage only lasted 2 years and she is now back in England. I have thus put my Scandinavian studies on hold. Recently I picked up a second hand Danish couse in a charity shop to add to my extensive multilingual studies library. As with many other languages I have dabbled with Danish. My second language is German, followed by French, Spanish, Dutch and Afrikaans in that order. My father was South African. About 10 years ago I spent a year learning Japanese, but I have since forgotten most of it. I confess to being a bit of an anorak where languages are concerned.

[ElDanés]

Oh, I see. I must say you have picked Danish up pretty well then.

Interesting, Afrikaans. I used to study Afrikaans myself a bit, just for fun and because of its extraordinarily simple grammar. One is able to understand quite a lot of it without having studied it when one has a little background in German and of course, Dutch, which it is derived from. I stopped studying it though, because I'd rather spend time on other languages and because I can't really use it for anything, unless I'm going to spend some time in South Africa.

[brute]

Afrikaans has very simple grammar which allows constructions such as... This is a book what I have wrote.
Conjugations like...... I is , you is, he is, us is .....
Compulsary double negatives like...... I have not seen him not
Only one gender
etc etc ...

The only rules of grammar seem to be the bad ones which uneducated English speakers tend to use.

[ElDanés]

Exactly. The only troublesome aspects of Afrikaans grammar I stumbled upon while stuyding it were the pluralization of nouns, which in many cases was irregular, and the same for the adjectives.

[adfsdu]

I think the grammar and listening is the hardest in learning a foreign language, the reading and writing will get easier if you master the grammar, to improve listening , you have to listen to a native's speaking.