Carne

[laepelba]

When I was in Uruguay this summer, I stayed with a friend who is a high school English teacher. Her English is exceptional - better even than mine most of the time.

At one point, we were eating some "asado" (a style of preparing meat, usually done with a variety of meats...) She asked me if I wanted more meat. I was full, so I said "no". Then she asked me if I want some chicken. I was totally confused.

As we talked about it, we realized it was a mutual misunderstanding. I always thought that "carne" (in Spanish) meant any kind of "meat" (meaning anything that was ever living and breathing, including beef, foul, seafood, lamb, pork, etc.) SHE always thought that "meat" (in English) meant what I would just call "red meat" (essentially beef).

It was an interesting conversation, and I have had that thought verified by other Latin American friends: "carne" means "red meat" and there are other specific names for other kinds of meat: "pollo", "marisco", etc.

Today I was listening to a Spanish-learning podcast. This podcast is done by some Scottish English-speakers who are using Spain-Spanish. They were talking about foods that you can order at a restaurant, and they said that "carne" means "meat" ... and they went on to say that if you want to be specific, you can say "carne rojo" for "red meat". Really?

So my question is: is "carne rojo" something specific to Spain? Or is it used in Latin America, too? If so, isn't that redundant, if "carne" really only refers to beef anyway?

THANKS!!

[ookami]

No estoy de acuerdo.
Aquí todo el mundo entiende "carne" como "carne roja"(de vaca), tenes razón, pero insisto en que ESTA MAL. Vivo todos los días corrigiendo eso. Cuando alguien dice que es vegetariano no dice "no como pollo, carne roja(o carne de res, o carne de vaca, como se quiera decir), no como pescado, etc..." se dice directamente "no como carne" (I don't eat meat). Es solo que el pueblo arraigo esa horrenda costumbre que solo evitan los atentos.
Por lo menos yo, más que un modismo, lo tomo como un error.

[laepelba]

That is interesting, Ookami. My Uruguayan friend and her husband are both highly educated. They were honestly surprised at our conversation. Is it possibly something regional? My friends live in Rivera.....

[ookami]

No, it isn't something regional, in Argentina is like in Uruguay. (I had been to Rivera too :P, well, I had travel all around uruguay with school...)
But, if you like something more neutral, carne means "meat" and "red meat/caw meat"..
I have to admit, is a lot more comfortable to say "carne" than "carne roja" or "carne de vaca" or "carne de res"...

¿Vas a comer más carne hoy?
Are you going to eat more meat today?

Dame un poco más de carne.
Give me some more beef.

Dame un poco más de pollo.
Give me some more chicken.

[Elaina]

Pero a veces uno tiene que especificar....

Quiero mas carne (understood beef or pork)

La mayoria de las veces me ha pasado que tengo que decir ... quiero mas pollo....OR ..... quiero mas carne.

No se si sea correcto o no pero si hay una distincción entre carne y pollo.

My

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Elaina

Pero a veces uno tiene que especificar....

Quiero mas carne (understood beef or pork)

La mayoria de las veces me ha pasado que tengo que decir ... quiero mas pollo....OR ..... quiero mas carne.

No se si sea correcto o no pero si hay una distincción entre carne y pollo.

My

In Chile we say more meat meaning more beef, now if there is pork or chicken you just simply state you want more pork or chicken or fish etc...

but carne is meat (beef) .

[pjt33]

I've never heard carne rojo, but I have come across situations where carne was ambiguous between meat or beef.

Ookami, aquí muchas personas no entienden la palabra "vegetariano". Estuve una vez en un restaurante con una vegetariana, y el camarero sugerió una ensalada de jamón - pues todo el mundo come jamón, ¿no?

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

but carne is meat (beef) .

Originally Posted by pjt33

I've never heard carne rojo, but I have come across situations where carne was ambiguous between meat or beef.

But here, you've both done what I'm talking about. I guess that I'm more curious about Spanish-speakers using the word "meat" in English than anything. When I say "meat", I truly mean ANYTHING that used to be breathing - beef, chicken, pork, lamb, fish, shellfish, etc. "Meat" is all-inclusive.

[ookami]

I have always understood meat as you say, laepelba

and yes pjt33, there is a lot of unknowledge about this topics, that for me, must be well knowed for someone that went through elementary school.. Even my family, when I didn't wanted to eat meat for some reason, offered me chicken, or sandwich with.. turkey or ham. One correction, is "carne roja", not "carne rojo"

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by laepelba

But here, you've both done what I'm talking about.

?

When I say "meat", I truly mean ANYTHING that used to be breathing - beef, chicken, pork, lamb, fish, shellfish, etc. "Meat" is all-inclusive.

I don't think I've ever previously heard someone say that they count fish and shellfish as meat. I would tend to use it as mammalian or avian muscle, so I wouldn't normally count liver or tripe as meat either.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

But here, you've both done what I'm talking about. I guess that I'm more curious about Spanish-speakers using the word "meat" in English than anything. When I say "meat", I truly mean ANYTHING that used to be breathing - beef, chicken, pork, lamb, fish, shellfish, etc. "Meat" is all-inclusive.

PJT's fault!

But seriously. Carne means beef

Sometimes, when there is a need to differentiate we say carne de cerdo as opposed to carne de vaca.

carne roja no se usa, pero si la del pollo o pavo que pueden ser blanca o magra. (lean) y oscura (not (so) lean)

[laepelba]

Thanks for clarifying. (All of you!) I really thought it was strange when I heard it on that podcast. It's interesting - because the man who does the majority of the teaching on the podcast is obviously very knowledgeable with Spain-Spanish, but is not a native speaker. I figure that sometimes things might be only very slightly less than accurate...

[pjt33]

I'm still not sure of what I'm being accused.

[ookami]

Para mi "carne roja" esta bien chileno, sé que no es tan usada, pero no deja de parecerme algo muy normal más que nada en escritura.
Igual sigo defendiendo que, al no haber otra palabra que englobe todos los tipos de carnes(meat), decirle carne a la carne de vaca me parece mal. Aunque lo use el 99% de la población. Se genera confusión todo el tiempo -entre nativos- de esta manera. Si digo que no como carne y me preguntan si quiero pollo me parece ignorancia. (que no quiere decir que este mal)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

"Carne roja" es un término que usan los médicos para prohibir lo que uno no debe comer.

"Carne", in it's standard definition, is the meat of four-legged animals like cow, pig, lamb, goat (in some places horse), venison, rabbit, etc. And it also includes farmyard birds (aves de corral) like chicken and turkey, as well as hunted ones like pheasant, quail, duck....
Fish, shellfish or insects are not regularly considered "carne", except fish, when it's included, together with birds, in the category of "carne blanca".
(Although there was a funny advertising about ostrich meat as "la única carne roja sin colesterol".)

In common speech, people frequently mark a difference between "carne" (the one that walks on four legs), "pollo" (the one with feathers) and "pescado" (the one that swims).

[laepelba]

Funny ... in English, "red meat" is beef, venison, lamb, etc. "White meat" is pork, chicken, turkey, other fowl, etc. I honestly don't know if there are people who would consider fish & seafood to be "white meat", but I don't necessarily put them together. Hmmm....

[poli]

Estoy hecho de carne y hueso. I'm made of flesh and bones.
El significado de carne no cambia mucho entre idiomas. Los tejidos de los animales es carne--todos los animales. Además se puede usar carne figuradadamente. La carne del durasno (melocotón) es su pulpa.

[Tomisimo]

First of all, carne = meat, just like in English. If you're talking about a chicken, you can say "la carne de pollo", for example. But in real life, and especially when talking about food, the term "carne" implies beef (at least in Mexico). To a lesser degree "carne" can imply pork or lamb. In common usage (in Mexico), "carne" would not be used to refer to chicken, which would be pollo.

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by poli

El significado de carne no cambia mucho entre idiomas.

Pero cuidado con el inglés antiguo, porque hace tres o cuatro siglos "meat" quería decir "comida" en general.

[CrOtALiTo]

It's as could to be cataloged in Mexico red meat and white meat, I mean Carne roja this meat include Carne de red, y cerdo, and the white meat include Pollo and fish too.