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  #1  
Unread July 19, 2009, 07:58 AM
satchrocks satchrocks is offline
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Mismo

Does "mismo" take on the gender of the subject of the sentence, or does it take the subject of the noun that the subject is "the same as"?

How exactly are sentences constructed with mismo?
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  #2  
Unread July 19, 2009, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satchrocks View Post
Does "mismo" take on the gender of the subject of the sentence, or does it take the subject of the noun that the subject is "the same as"?

How exactly are sentences constructed with mismo?
Not exactly sure of what you are talking about. However, taking in consideration the following:

El árbol es el mismo. - The tree is the same one.

Él mismo lo dijo _ He, himself, said it.

Es la misma cubierta que aquella. - It is the same cover as that one.

Esa es la misma chaqueta que usó el año pasado. - That is the same jacket that used/wore last year.

Hopefully I answered to your satisfaction.
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  #3  
Unread July 19, 2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Not exactly sure of what you are talking about. However, taking in consideration the following:

El árbol es el mismo. - The tree is the same one.

Él mismo lo dijo _ He, himself, said it.

Es la misma cubierta que aquella. - It is the same cover as that one.

Esa es la misma chaqueta que usó el año pasado. - That is the same jacket that used/wore last year.

Hopefully I answered to your satisfaction.
¡buenísima información!

¿La puedo usar como eso?

A mí mismo me gustaría ganar la loteria
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  #4  
Unread July 19, 2009, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjenkins View Post
¡buenísima información!

¿La puedo usar como eso?

A mí mismo me gustaría ganar la loteria
Suena un poco redundante, pero es correcto.
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  #5  
Unread July 19, 2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Suena un poco redundante, pero es correcto.
I think Satchrocks is also asking if you can use mismo to describe two identical objects or two people who are the same?

For instance, can you say

"estos gameles son los mismos - identicos - o iguales" ?

"Un kilogramo y 1000 gramos son el mismo (lo mismos)"
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  #6  
Unread July 19, 2009, 09:30 PM
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For identical twins you'd say:

Los gemelos son idénticos.


For people who look alike:

Mi mamá y yo nos parecemos.
My mother and I look alike.


I don't know if I understand well "people who are the same", but I think it could be something like:

Juan M. y J. Martínez son la misma persona.
Juan M. and J. Martínez are the same person.

Roberto y yo pertenecemos a la misma familia: somos primos.
Roberto and I belong to the same family: we're cousins.


As for the weight equivalence example:

Un kilo y mil gramos son lo mismo.
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  #7  
Unread July 27, 2009, 06:00 AM
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Ok.. when I just started learning Spanish I loved the word 'mismo' and 'misma'. But now I am not so sure..

Sometimes I get confused when I have to use 'mismo' (/igual), 'propio' / 'propia' or even for example ' por mi cuenta'.

' I have done it myself' for example: ' Lo he hecho yo mismo'? or ' ' yo lo he hecho por mi cuenta'

' Es el mismo' - but 'y su uso propio' - not ' y su uso mismo' - right, or wrong?

' Me da igual' but not ' me da mismo' ? Although in most cases I suppose ' igual' and ' mismo' can be used interchangeably..?

So can someone give me a clear rule of thumb when to use
'mismo'
'propio'
'por me cuenta'

when referring to 'self' , 'by him/him/herself ' etc?
For example if I want to emphasize that I have done something ' all by myself' - would I say ' por me cuenta'?

Or if I want to emphasize that I was 'all by myself ' would I be using any of these words or should I use ' completamente sola' for example?

He came all by himself (meaning not alone but of his own initiative, it was all his idea), would I translate that as ' Veni completamente/todo por su cuenta' or would I need to put it in another way

Somehow this seems like a fairly easy distinction between these words, yet when I am trying to use them it seems I don't use them appropriately more often than not.

Last edited by EmpanadaRica; July 27, 2009 at 06:02 AM.
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  #8  
Unread July 27, 2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica View Post
Ok.. when I just started learning Spanish I loved the word 'mismo' and 'misma'. But now I am not so sure..

Sometimes I get confused when I have to use 'mismo' (/igual), 'propio' / 'propia' or even for example ' por mi cuenta'.

' I have done it myself' for example: ' Lo he hecho yo mismo'? or ' ' yo lo he hecho por mi cuenta' Both are right. In one case you emphasize you did it yourself and in the other you say you did it on your own initiative.

' Es el mismo' - but 'y su uso propio' - not ' y su uso mismo' - right, or wrong? I'm not sure I understand your question here... "Es el mismo" means it's the same... (it needs either something said before or a complement: "the same jacket", "the same place"...)
"Su uso propio" and "su uso mismo" also need some context or complement. "La biblioteca es para uso propio de los estudiantes" (it's the students who will use it).
But "su uso mismo" is not related to "su uso propio": "Las drogas dañan la salud. Su uso mismo está prohibido". (The use of drugs itself is forbidden).

' Me da igual' but not ' me da lo mismo' ? Although in most cases I suppose ' igual' and ' mismo' can be used interchangeably..?

"Me da igual" and "me da lo mismo" can be used interchangeably and both mean "I don't care".

So can someone give me a clear rule of thumb when to use
'mismo'
'propio'
'por me cuenta'

when referring to 'self' , 'by him/him/herself ' etc?
For example if I want to emphasize that I have done something ' all by myself' - would I say ' por me cuenta'?

I don't think I can give any rules. The continuous use of the words and the contexts will show you how to use them. Try to write many sentences with different examples and you'll start seeing the nuances between them.

Or if I want to emphasize that I was 'all by myself ' would I be using any of these words or should I use ' completamente sola' for example?

"All by myself" can be said "yo sola", "completamente sola", "sin ayuda", "por mi cuenta"... it depends on the context and your intention.

He came all by himself (meaning not alone but of his own initiative, it was all his idea), would I translate that as ' Veni vino completamente/enteramente/todo por su cuenta' or would I need to put it in another way

Somehow this seems like a fairly easy distinction between these words, yet when I am trying to use them it seems I don't use them appropriately more often than not.


Comments and suggestions above.
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  #9  
Unread July 27, 2009, 11:55 PM
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Hola Angelica!!
¡¡¡Muchas gracias por toda tu ayuda y las explicaciones!!!
De hecho eres una angelita

Quote:
Es el mismo' - but 'y su uso propio' - not ' y su uso mismo' - right, or wrong? I'm not sure I understand your question here... "Es el mismo" means it's the same... (it needs either something said before or a complement: "the same jacket", "the same place"...)
"Su uso propio" and "su uso mismo" also need some context or complement. "La biblioteca es para uso propio de los estudiantes" (it's the students who will use it).
But "su uso mismo" is not related to "su uso propio": "Las drogas dañan la salud. Su uso mismo está prohibido". (The use of drugs itself is forbidden).
Sorry yes, I should have complemented the sentence, sorry! I did intend it exactly how you interpreted it.

I hadn' t come across ' su uso mismo' yet, this is very good, thank you for explaining. I will try to make a structure for myself with Dutch and/ or English equivalents so this will hopefully give me more insight into when to use which.

The way I read it at the moment (but this may vary depending on context I am aware of this!) would be:
'su uso propio' would be more or less translated as 'it is intended/ meant for' or ' aimed at' or (in a wide sense) 'belonging to, pertaining to'?
Whereas ' su uso mismo' would be more like 'in and of itself' ' it's mere use' for example?

Quote:
' Me da igual' but not ' me da lo mismo' ? Although in most cases I suppose ' igual' and ' mismo' can be used interchangeably..?

"Me da igual" and "me da lo mismo" can be used interchangeably and both mean "I don't care".
Ok that' s very good to know, thanx!! I hadn't come across 'me da lo mismo' yet, and I was wondering why not. This makes a lot more sense!

Quote:

I don't think I can give any rules. The continuous use of the words and the contexts will show you how to use them. Try to write many sentences with different examples and you'll start seeing the nuances between them.
Ok fair enough (you have to admit, it was worth a shot )

It' s actually very good advice, I think I will do exactly that!! Just take a topic like this and try to make some sentences to see if I am grasping the differences correctly ¡¡Gracias!! ¡¡ Me has ayudado muchisimo!!
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  #10  
Unread July 28, 2009, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satchrocks View Post
Does "mismo" take on the gender of the subject of the sentence, or does it take the subject of the noun that the subject is "the same as"?

How exactly are sentences constructed with mismo?
Mismo is an adjective, and as such must agree in gender and number with the noun it modifies:

el mismo coche
la misma ruta
los mismos hombres
las mismas palabras

As for the meaning of mismo, be careful. Mismo means it is physically and literally the same object. If you have something that is the same as something else, but you're not talking about the same literal object, then use igual.

- Look at my new dictionary!
- I have the same one.

- ¡Mira mi nuevo diccionario!
- Yo tengo uno igual.
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