All my doubts from Keats's poetry here.

[ookami]

Since now I am going to start, slowly, to read Keats's poems; and to not been opening new posts all the time, I will put all Keats's poems questions here

First round, four questions. 28/09/09:

_Ode on a Grecian Urn._

1.

Thou still unravish'd bride of quietness, 1)
..Thou foster-child of silence and slow time,
Sylvan historian, who canst thus express 4)
..A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
What leaf-fring'd legend haunts about thy shape 2)
..Of deities or mortals, or of both,
....In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
..What men or gods are these? What maidens loth? 3)
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
..What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy?

1) Well, I understand the meaning of the sentence but I can't translate it clearly: "unravished bride" how would be translated?

2) "leaf-fringed" meaning?
Here "about" is related to movement, to "haunt" (I bealive), what would be the difference if I don't use it (about)?

3) I understand both words separately but I can't imagine a good translation as a whole. Any idea?

Thanks and sorry for been asking all the time(can I not use "the" here?)
I am learning a lot here. :)

Edit:

4) I almost forgot this: I found that "cansts" is the archaic form of "can" for the present, and "thus" here would be something as "in this manner", but in a translation I found:
"narradora del bosque que nos cuentas"
Some more literal way to translate it how would be?

[pjt33]

1. Novia virgen.
2. Bordeado de hojas. "About" es "alrededor", no tiene que ver con movimiento sino con el diseño de la urna.
3. Es que sólo es media frase. ¿Qué doncellas mal dispuestas?
4. Historiadora selvática, que puede así expresar

PD "Questions", no "doubts". En inglés "doubt" tiene que ver con lo que te cuesta creer.

[VivaEspana]

Wonderful! You are translating Keats', ookami!

[ookami]

- :thumbsup: Thank you very much pjt33, all clear now :)
- VivaEspaña, thanks, but maybe in 15 years :rolleyes:

Well, this second part I understanded it better, but I have especially one question I would like to do...

Second round, two questions. 29/09/09:

2.

Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
..Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear'd,
..Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone: 1)
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave
..Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
....Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goal--yet, do not grieve;
....She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
..For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair! 2)

1)
Pipe can be translate here as a conjugation of "llevar"?
"llevad para/hacia el espíritu canciones silenciosas"
I know it's better "tocad" (as I read in a translation), but I want to know if it's acceptable, because I found "llevar"(por ductos, tuberías) as a meaning of pipe in a dictionary.

2)
I understand this but I have been seeing that it's common to not use pronouns and sometimes I have doubts...
For example, in that sentence, I spontaneously translated it as:

"¡por siempre tú amarás, y ella por siempre [será] bella!"

but in a translation I found:
¡serás su amante siempre, y ella por siempre bella!"
I would translate it that way if after "love" were writen "her"

So, when a native English speaker read that sentence for the first time, he would understand it as "the man will love forever" or as " the man will love her forever"?

Something similar happens here:

....Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
....Osado amante, nunca, nunca podrás besarla
With "kiss her" I would say it as:
....Osado amante, nunca, nunca podrás besar

Thanks, Regards.

[poli]

Pipe significa tocar la flauta.

[pjt33]

1. Lo que ha dicho Poli. "Pipe" en el sentido de llevar por tuberías es transitivo, así que es imposible aquí.

2. Estoy más o menos de acuerdo contigo. "Por siempre amarás, y ella será bella". "Serás su amante" para mi tiene connotaciones de reciprocidad que no concuerdan con la primera estrofa. "Besar" / "besarla": "besar" es más literal pero no me parece importar cuál elijes.