¿Quieres aprender holandés? - Page 4

Yes you are right :) It's quite an understandable mistake because these tend to be difficult verbs, used in many different contexts and expressions, and slightly differently in every language. :)

In fact all of the mistakes I mentioned here are really logical, it's just that sometimes Dutch itself isn't always logical because meanings of words and verbs especially may change a lot with wordorder. :rolleyes: :D

One thing I have noticed many people have some difficulties with when learning Dutch is the use of 'het' and 'er'. In fact this is particularly true for Spanish speaking natives - and vice versa I think it explains why I have the urge to add 'lo' a lot in sentences in Spanish.

I think this is more of a habit in German languages, i.e. English has this habit somewhat more, and so does German, but Dutch probably exceeds both, which is why it is hard to grasp even for people who have been learning and using the language for quite a while. :)

One thing that is difficult about it is that it may alter the meaning or connotation/charge of a sentence quite a bit. In fact we use several 'introjectory' words amongst which 'er' to modify a sentence, make it sound more polite or urgent for instance, which is almost impossible to translate. :)

At any rate, I'd like to give you a few examples, hopefully to clarify my point. :D (Should anyone have any additional questions please feel free. :))

If we would say in Dutch ' Ik geloof het niet' this can mean either ' I don't believe it' /lo no creo or ' I don't think so' / I believe not / Creo que no.

'Ik geloof er niet in' however means ' I don't believe in it' / 'No creo en esto'.

Other examples:
' Toe maar, neem er maar eentje!' - 'Go ahead, have one'! (in which neither 'er' nor 'maar' is literally translated into anything, but it implies the 'go ahead' - encouragement).

Normally 'maar' would mean 'but' however in combination with other words such as 'er' or 'alleen' it changes its meaning.

' Ik was er alleen' - I was there alone - Estuve allí solo/sola.
' Ik was er alleen maar om even te kijken' - I was only there to have a quick peek - 'Sólo estuve allí para echar un vistazo'

' Ik ga af' - 'I am being made a fool of' (verb: afgaan)
' Ik ga eraf' - I am getting off (it)' (implying a movement away from something) (verb: eraf gaan).

' Afblijven!' - 'Hands off!'
but when used in imperative: ' Blijf ervan af!' - 'Keep your hands off!!'

Also there is oftentimes a lot of confusion when to write it seperately or when to combine it with other words..

' Ik heb er erg afgezien' - I have put in a lot of effort there, I have worked extremely hard/ it's been very hard on me. (verb: afzien)

' Ik heb ervan afgezien' - I have changed my mind, I have thought the better of it. (verb: ervan afzien/ ergens van afzien)

' Ik heb er niet veel van gezien' - I haven't seen much of it.

Dat krijg je ervan! - That's what you get .. (in a negative connotation e.g. Dat krijg je ervan als je met de vriendin van je beste vriend flirt - that's what you get when you flirt with the girlfriend of your best friend..')

'Ik heb er erg van genoten' - I have really enjoyed it a lot.

But:
'Ik neem het ervan' - I am enjoying it to the max, estoy aprovechando (de esto) mucho..

'Er' is combined with many prepositions such as 'aan' (on), 'bij' (with/along), 'tegen' (against), voor (before, for, in front of) etc etc..

' Ik kom eraan' - I am coming.. But: 'Ik kom er al aan!' - ' (Yes ok hold your horses,) I am coming already...' or ' I'm on my way (already).'
' Ik kom er aan' seperately means : I am arriving there. :rolleyes:
' Ik kom aan' (without 'er') means I am arriving or I am gaining weight.. :D
' Komaan!' means 'come on' by the way.It's used by the Belgians/ Flemish especially,
the Dutch tend to use ' Kom op!'

'Ik was ertegen' - I was against it.
'Ik heb er tegen gevochten' - I fought against it.
' Ik kan er niet meer tegen' - I can't take it anymore!
' Ik kan er niet tegen' - I can't stand it!
' Ik kan ertegen' - I can handle it.
'We gaan ertegenaan' - We're going to go for it.

'Ik was erbij toen het gebeurde!' I was there when it happened'.
' Hoe kom je erbij?' - How on earth did you come to this idea/notion?
' Hoe kom je erbij om mij zomaar te negeren?' - 'What on eath were you thinking ignoring me like that?!'
' Wil je er iets bij eten/drinken?' Would you like to have something to eat/drink along with it/ accompanying it?
' Ik hoor erbij' - I am part of it, I belong to it. (Ergens bijhoren = to belong to something or someone).

' Zag je me niet staan? Ik stond pal ervoor!' ' Didn't you see me standing? I was standing right in front of it!'
' Ik ben er niet voor' - I am not for it, I am not in favour of it.
' Ik ben ervoor om te zorgen dat het je aan niets ontbreekt' -
I am here for you, to make sure that you are short of nothing, that you have all you need.
' Voor ik het wist, was hij er al voor me' - Before I knew it, he was already there for me ' or : 'he was already in front of me'.


Well from these few examples you might see that depending how 'er' is used, seperately or in combination with other words, the meaning of the sentence can change quite a lot. :)

A few examples of why you should be careful with wordorder in Dutch when learning it.. :p:

Placement of 'niet' (i.e. 'not', denial):

1. ' Ik wist niet dat je het expres deed' - ' I didn't know that you did it on purpose'.
2. Ik wist dat je het niet expres deed' - ' I knew you didn't do it on purpose'.
3. Ik wist dat je het expres niet deed!' - ' I knew that you purposefully didn't do it.

As you can see, sentence 2 and 3 in fact say the exact opposite of eachother..:rolleyes:

The 'denial' ('not') applies to the word or part of the sentence following directly after 'niet'.

Other example:

' Ik weet al dat je niet kan komen' - ' I already know you can't come'.
' Al weet ik dat je niet kan komen' - ' Even if I know that you can't come'.

'Daar je niet weet hoe een en ander is gebeurd, kan ik het beter uitleggen' - ' Because you don't know how some things happened, I had better explain'.
' Je weet niet hoe een en en ander daar gebeurd is, dus ik kan het beter uitleggen'. - ' You don't know how some things happened there, so I had better explain'.

'Soms denk je dat ze ervan doorgaat' - Sometimes you think she's splitting.
'Denk je soms dat ze ervan doorgaat..?!' - Do you (really) think she'll be splitting?!

' Toch heb ik dat gedaan ' - Still, I did do it.
' Ik heb dat toch gedaan' - I did it anyway.
' Dat heb ik toch gedaan?!' - 'I did it, didn't I?!'

'Nou moet je even horen..' - ' Now, listen here..'
' Moet je nou (even) horen..' - ' Listen to this (for a second)..'
' Nou, je moet het even horen' - ' Well, you should listen to it for a sec'.

' Even dacht ik dat hij het wilde maken' - 'For a second I thought he wanted to make it'.
' Ik dacht dat hij het even wilde maken' - 'I thought he wanted to quickly fix it' or: 'I thought he wanted to equalize it.'

' Maar ik heb het toen alleen gedaan, omdat niemand hielp!' - 'But I did it all by myself then, because nobody helped!
' Ik heb het toen maar alleen gedaan, omdat niemand hielp' - 'I just did it by myself then, because nobody helped'.
' Ik heb het toen alleen maar gedaan, omdat niemand hielp ' - ' I only did it then, because nobody helped'.


'Voor het opstaan denkt hij aan haar' - 'Before getting up he thinks about her. ' (verb: opstaan= to get up)
'Hij staat ervoor en denkt aan haar ' - He's standing in front of it and is thinking about her' (verb: staan ).
'Het staat voorop dat hij aan haar denkt' - It's of the utmost importance that he thinks of her. (verb: voorop staan, to be important)
'Hij staat zich erop voor dat hij aan haar denkt' - 'He's very proud of the fact that he thinks of her/ lets everyone know that he thinks of her'. (verb: zich erop voorstaan: to be proud of)
'Hij staat erop dat hij voor haar denkt' - 'He insists that he thinks for her'. :D (Verb: ergens / er op staan : to insist).
' Hij staat erop en denkt aan haar ' -' He is standing on it, and is thinking about her' (verb: ergens opstaan).

:D :D

did you post the numbers?

Hmm you mean how to count in Dutch? Yes a while ago. ;)

You can find them here .

Just another small addition for today.. :D

In Dutch we have a habit of combining two seperate words (especially adjectives) to emphasize or even exaggerate the meaning. For instance:

- 'poedel' (poodle) + 'naakt' ('naked') = 'poedelnaakt' (starknaked)
- 'stok' ('stick') + 'oud' ('old') become 'stokoud' -- extremely old, ancient.
- 'piep' ('peep' as in the sound of a hatchling ;)) + 'jong' ('young') become 'piepjong' --- extremely young, as green as grass.
- 'bloed' ('blood') + 'mooi' ('beautiful') become 'bloedmooi' --- drop dead gorgeous, stunning.
- 'gif' ('poison') + 'groen' ('green') become 'gifgroen' --- green as poison, it hurts your eyes.
- 'kanarie' ('canary') + 'geel' ('yellow') become 'kanariegeel' --- yellow as a canary.
- 'mier' ('ant') + 'zoet' ('sweet') become 'mierzoet' --> extremely sweet, toothbreakingly sweet.
- 'dood' ('dead') + 'saai' ('boring') become 'doodsaai' = deadboring, deadly boring.
- 'hemel' ('heaven') + 'blauw' ('blue') become 'hemelsblauw' , heavenly/cerulean blue.
- 'lijk' ('corpse') + 'bleek' ('pale') become 'lijkbleek' , as pale as a corpse, a dead person , 'deadly pale'.
- 'pimpel' (a kind of drink) + 'paars' ('purple') become 'pimpelpaars' -- purple as a pimpel, extremely purple.
- 'beer' ('bear') + 'sterk' (strong) become 'beresterk', as strong as a bear (/ox).
- 'olie' ('oil') + 'dom' (stupid) become 'oliedom' (excessively stupid).
- 'aap' ('monkey') + 'trots' (proud') become 'apetrots' (as proud as a monkey, extremely proud).
- 'muis' ('mouse') + 'stil' ('quiet') become 'muisstil' (as quiet as a mouse, extremely quiet).
- 'kool' ('coal') + 'zwart' ('black'), become 'koolzwart' (as black as coal).
- 'peper' ('pepper') + 'duur' ('expensive') become 'peperduur' (= extremely expensive/over the top- this dates from the time pepper and spices were extremely expensive)
- 'kakel' ('the sound a chicken/hen makes') + 'vers' ('fresh') becomes 'kakelvers' --- as fresh as an egg that was just laid by a hen.. ;)

ok thanks

Esto ya empieza a ser holandés avanzado :thinking: ¡Qué difícil! ;)

Creo que si hubiera nacido en Holanda, hablaría español, es más fácil :D

Haha :D Sí pero vosotros todos sois alumnos muy listos y inteligentes, entonces me dijé que quizá esta sería un poco más interesante..:p
De verdad es para mostrar un poco las cosas únicas del idioma.;)
Pues me has dicho que quisieras saber y aprender más y 'I aim to please' .. :D:D
:lol: Eso lo dudo mucho ... :D ¡Aunque puedo imaginarme que preferías hablar español porque es un idioma tan bonito! :thumbsup: ;)

Tengo una curiosidad sobre el nombre de esta lengua: mis profesores han insistido mucho en evitar "holandés" y usar en cambio "neerlandés". La idea es que "holandés" se refiere sólo a una región y "neerlandés" incluye a los Países Bajos en conjunto. ¿Cómo lo dirías tú, Empanada? :)

Is there a translation for "Jessica"

;)

Sí es correcto. :) Es decir que 'Holanda' y 'holandés' se refieren a la provincia 'Noord-Holland' ('Holanda del Norte') especialmente (donde se encuentra Amsterdam, la capital, también.;)). La razón por esto es, que en los siglos 16 y 17 cuando la economia creció mucho y la provincia Noord-Holland se quedó (became?) muy rica y próspera. Por eso, y porque hubo mucho comercio, la provincia 'Noord-Holland' se hizo sinónimo a los Países Bajos, 'holandés' a 'neerlandés'. :)

Cuando estoy hablando con gente fuera de Holanda, suelo utilizar 'holandés' y 'neerlandés' como sean sinónimos, pero de hecho es porque en el extranjero se utiliza más 'Holanda' y 'holandés'. Normalmente cuando estoy hablando en mi idioma nativo diría 'neerlandés', es decir: 'Nederlands'. :)

No, in Dutch the name 'Jessica' is also 'Jessica' :)
In fact my best friend in elementary school was called like that. ;)

oh ok

Fantastic explanation and great Spanish! Thank you. :rose:

:o ¡De nada y muchas gracias a ti también por las correcciones! :thumbsup: :) :rose:

what are the days of the week in holandés and also the months?

:)

Days of the week:

Monday = maandag
Tuesday = dinsdag
Wednesday = woensdag
Thursday = donderdag
Friday = vrijdag
Saturday = zaterdag
Sunday = zondag


As in English, Wednesday and Thursday are derived from the old Germanic gods 'Wodan' and 'Thor'. ;)

Months of the year:

January = januari
February = februari
March = maart
April = april
May = mei
June = juni
July = juli
August = augustus
September = september
October = oktober
November = november
December = december.

Seasons:

Spring = de lente
Summer = de zomer
Autumn/Fall = de herfst
Winter - de winter

As you can see quite similar to English. :p

second = seconde
minute = minuut
quarter of an hour = kwartier
half an hour = een half uur.
hour = uur.
day = dag
week = week
month = maand
year = jaar
date = datum

yesterday = gisteren
the day before yesterday = eergisteren
today = vandaag
tomorrow = morgen
the day after tomorrow = overmorgen

morning = ochtend
in the morning = ' s ochtends
afternoon = middag
in the afternoon = 's middags
evening = avond
in the evening = 's avonds
night = nacht
at night = 's nachts


'What time is it?' = ' Hoe laat is het?'
'What day is it today?' = ' Welke dag is het vandaag?'
'Which date is it today?' = ' Welke datum is het vandaag?'


Here you can find pronunciations of the days of the week and the months of the year. :)

Well it's been a while since I wrote any additions here so I'll write some more in case anyone would like to know. :D Should you have any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them.:)

Today I was explaining some things, slight differences but interesting ones imho to some friends who are learning Dutch.

The first thing was about some expressions and 'false friends' (amigos falsos) that were taken literally and therefore were misunderstood obviously. :D
In this context by the way it might be interesting to mention that the word 'vals' (which looks suspiciously like false) sometimes means something quite different in Dutch although it's not positive either.
'Vals' in general means 'mean' ,it may also be used about animals which have been maltreated and can therefore be unreliable.
'Vals zingen' means to sing out of tune..
'Vals spelen' means to cheat (i.e. in a game). :D .. so 'vals' and 'false' are 'false friends' .. what's in a word... :D

1.
'In de rug schieten'
Literally this means 'to shoot in the back'. My friend was very much confused because he thought it was about a crimescene where someone got shot in the back, but could not make sense of the contextm which took place in a doctor's office. :p
This is an expression we use to say when someone gets acute backaches or backproblems, such as a hernia. But obviously this can be interpreted quite differenly when read literally... :D

Similar expressions (i.e. similar in grammatical sense, not so much in meaning) would be 'te kort schieten' or 'te kort doen'.
'Te kort schieten' literally translates as 'to shoot too shortly', and means more or less, 'to fail someone/something'
e.g. When her father died I felt I failed her in that I was unable to support her enough': ' Toen haar vader stierf voelde ik me alsof ik haar te kort was geschoten omdat ik haar niet genoeg kon steunen'.

'Te kort doen' literally translates as 'to do too shortly'. This more or less means 'to do injustice to/ to not do justice to, something or someone'.

'Schieten' is used for 'to shoot' but may also indicate a suddenness of event in general, many times emotion-related (not unlike the Spanish 'echar', sometimes in English 'to burst' although the latter in fact also may be translated as 'barsten' :))
You can say for example:
'In de lach schieten' - To burst into laughter/ echarse a reír
'In de stress schieten' - To get stressed, to stress out.
'Uit zijn slof schieten' - (slof=slipper/zapatilla), to suddenly burst into anger, to lash out.

2.
Sometimes verbs can look alike and mean quite different things, even if the root of the verb/word is the same.
This is the case with e.g. 'herkennen' and 'erkennen'.
'Herkennen' = to recognize (as in, from your memory).
'Erkennen' = also to recognize but in the sense of getting recognition, giving the praise or appreciation it deserves, or acknowledging (which come to think of it may be exactly 'erkennen'. kennis=knowledge, kennen= to know... :D)

My friend said he 'erkende' (acknowledged) some people he really didn't like, but obviously meant 'herkende' (recognized) instead.:p

3.
Another example of verbs that look alike, have similar root principles but in fact can mean quite something different (even if in fact in this case the difference can be subtle) and that often pose as false friend is 'lijken', 'schijnen' en 'blijken' (socalled 'modal verbs').

The English 'to seem' would seem (:D) equivalent to the Dutch 'schijnen' (in German 'scheinen'). But in fact it may vary quite a bit.;) This is one mistake my English friends who learn Dutch keep making because it can be a little confusing.

'schijnen' = to seem as in 'alledgedly', 'it is said'. This is based on hearsay, on what people think or say about it in general, not so much on your own experience or on your own (literal) perception.
Caveat: this verb also means 'to shine' as in 'de zon schijnt'- 'the sun is shining'.;)

'lijken' = to seem as in 'appear to be', 'look to be'. This is based on your own perceptions and experiences.(In Spanish parecer).

'blijken' = 'to turn out to be' (maybe 'resultar' in spanish?:-))
This is something you did not know/perceive or experience, but turned out to be in some way when experiencing it.

'Het schijnt mooi weer te zijn vandaag...'
Apparantly it is nice weather today...
They say it is nice weather today...
(You don't know this because you have been inside all day in a dark office locked away in your cell/cubicle... :D)

'Het lijkt mooi weer te zijn/worden vandaag'
'It seems it will be a nice day today'.
'It appears to be a nice day today..'
You are looking outside the window, and are seeing for yourself that it may be quite a nice day and are commenting on this.

'Het blijkt mooi weer te zijn vandaag..'
Today it turns out to be nice weather..
I didn't know this, in fact maybe I was expecting it to be bad because there was a bad forecast but hey, it turns out to be looking good out there.. :D

4.
And last but not least there are the verbs that are either normal or compound (sometimes one verb can be both, ie one compound and one normal) with some confusion wrt the correct meaning/interpretation as a result. :)

e.g. 'opkomen', 'uitkomen', 'inkomen', 'nakomen', 'voorkomen (this one I treated before in this topic), 'bijkomen' etc.

'Opkomen' can mean 'to come up/to make an entrance' (on stage), 'to remember' (ik kan er niet opkomen= I can't remember), 'to rise' (the sun)

'Uitkomen' means 'to get out', 'to come out, 'to find a way out/a solution' (Ik kom er niet uit..I can't find a solution), or to have sufficient money or means. Also it may mean to settle differences : 'We zijn er niet met elkaar uitgekomen', 'we were unable to settle our differences'.

'Inkomen' means 'to get in' (Ik kom er niet in, I can't get in) or 'to understand/to empathize' ('Daar kan ik inkomen' = I can empathize, I can understand). Btw it is also a noun, meaning 'income'. To come in = binnenkomen.
In this case wordorder can be of importance also. For example:
'Hij kwam/liep de kamer binnen' = He came/walked into the room.
'Hij liep binnen de kamer' = He was walking inside the room.
'Hij ging/liep het gebouw in/binnen' = He went into the building.
'Hij liep binnen het gebouw'= He was walking inside the building.

'Nakomen' means to come after something or someone, to follow. Also to keep a promiss. 'Ik kon mijn belofte niet nakomen' = 'I could not keep my promiss'. It may also mean to be in detention for school (i.e. nakomen, nablijven).

'Bijkomen' means 'to join' (e.g. kom erbij!= join us!= bij means with or near), or 'to add' ('Daar komt nog bij dat hij ook nog eens rijk is' - ' Add to that that he is also rich..' ). Also this means to regain consciousness after fainting, and in the negative 'Niet meer bijkomen' it means not to regain consciousness or as an expression, not being able to stop laughing. :D ('Ik kwam niet meer bij'.. I had to laugh so hard I wet myself' (or something similar.. :D) If you add the word 'er' however ('Ik kwam er niet meer bij') it means not being able to reach (I wasn't able to reach it anymore..). :D

Just a few 'falsos amigos' and things that may seem easy to translate especially between English or German and Dutch but in fact might turn out to be a bit more difficult than expected. :D

It's true in related language there's a lot of false friends, but in some of
you examples there are traces of English. I think lijken is similar to liken.
Example: He likened the experience to being on a roller coaster.
The in your explanation of ik kna er neit opkomen seem a lot time I can't come up with it.
I can see that learning Dutch can enhance an English speaker's knowledge
of their own language.

Yes this is quite true I think probably even more so with somewhat oldfashioned words (which makes sense :D). I hadn't thought about 'liken' yet but I think you are right (in fact this is pronounced almost exactly the same the way 'lijken' is pronounced in Dutch ;)) so that's very interesting, thanks for this perspective!! :thumbsup: :rose:
In fact it is funny because I was realizing something similar yesterday when writing the text and whilst doing so, realizing that 'to acknowledge' and 'erkennen' are exactly the same word in fact. :) Also it made me think about the double meaning of 'recognition' as in to recognize someone from memory, or to pertain to appreciation or validation of sorts. :) It's interesting to see that this is exactly the difference between 'herkenning' and 'erkenning'. :D
Well frankly this did cross my mind last night when I wrote this and yes it does bear a great deal of similarity even in meaning I agree with you. :) Thing is I didn't want to confuse people perhaps even more than I may already writing about some subtle differences in a language they don't know (I can't come up with it' can after all also mean, I can't think of something as in imaginationwise, and it does not have this extra meaning in Dutch hence I decided against writing about it). :D
But like you I am very intrigued by these similarities and the insights they give into our own native languages and the way we use them, what the origin is of certain words etc. :)
Yes in fact I think it's very interesting you say so (and I am glad that you feel this way :thumbsup: :p). You see I have been involved since about 8 or so months in a site where people are learning Dutch, as in correcting texts and giving some pointers that sort of thing. Not unlike what many people do here helping out in wonderful ways for which I am very grateful. :thumbsup:
It's great fun to do and like you say you get a new awareness and appreciation for your own language, in that you get a lot more conscious about certain principles and the origin of things. Also about your own use of the language. In reality interestingly enough I think it has helped me with my learning of Spanish also because it is much easier to see all the connections, and to understand where something is coming from. :)
In fact one of my English friends who is learning Dutch had the exact same observation, because it made him curious about certain principles in English and he says he has newfound appreciation and knowledge/insight into his own native language as a consequence of it. :)

This is also why I think this forum is so great, because of this English-Spanish mix and all sorts of people contributing with bits of knowledge and even wisdom about other languages too, so this is all interconnected and makes a lot of sense. :thumbsup: :)

If you ever want more detail on something or would be curious to know about something, please let me know ok? And thanks again for your perspective, that's really very interesting to think about! :thumbsup: :p