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-   -   Minstrel, jongleur (https://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=11923)

Minstrel, jongleur


Don José November 05, 2011 05:15 PM

Minstrel, jongleur
 
"Juglar" in Spanish.
Is there any difference between a minstrel and a jongleur?

pjt33 November 05, 2011 06:09 PM

I think the main difference is probably that people have heard the word "minstrel" before and won't ask you what it means.

wrholt November 06, 2011 12:35 AM

Here in the US at least, "minstrel", "jongleur" and "troubador" are viewed as more-or-less synonymous terms, at least when used alone.

To my ear, "minstrel" suggests a singer/musician who performed popular songs for a general audience, while "troubador" suggests a singer/musician who performed songs for a more high-class audience, and "jongleur" seems less specific, suggesting someone who was as likely to have been a juggler or other type of act as to be a singer/musician.

The word "minstrel" has a negative association in the US today due to the expression "minstrel show", which was a type of popular entertainment from the later 19th and earler 20th century that featured humorous songs, instrumental pieces, and skits that parodied the lives of American Negroes.

Don José November 06, 2011 06:24 AM

The "trovador" is clearly different. They were composers and poets, a kind of songwriters who were often members of the nobility.

The "juglar", from the common people, is what you say for jongleur: a kind of street enterteiner who could sing, play instruments, tell stories, do juggling, acrobatics...

Both words, in Spanish (or in Spain), are used for Middle Ages persons. From your post, I assume that the minstrel is not always related to the Middle Ages. What about the jongleur?

Thanks for weekend commnents. :)

Rusty November 06, 2011 07:38 AM

Unlike wrholt, I've never heard the word jongleur used, and would have to look up the meaning (like pjt33, I assume).
I would use jester (court jester) to name an entertainer from the Middle Ages.
In today's world, I would use street entertainer or a juggler. If the street entertainer is performing magic, I would say he's a street magician (but only when he is out on the street). On stage, he'd be a stage magician.

poli November 06, 2011 10:17 PM

The word we use for jongleur is busker or street entertainer. Busker is a term more commonly heard in Britain than the United States (buskers of Covent Garden for instance) but it's a word generally known among show folk in New York as well.

wrholt November 07, 2011 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don José (Post 118422)
...
Both words, in Spanish (or in Spain), are used for Middle Ages persons. From your post, I assume that the minstrel is not always related to the Middle Ages. What about the jongleur?...

In the US at least, minstrel, with no other context, usually implies a (street) performer from the Middle Ages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 118426)
Unlike wrholt, I've never heard the word jongleur used, and would have to look up the meaning (like pjt33, I assume).
...

I learned the word "jongleur" while I was a university student because my particular social circle included members of my school's local chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism; those who played at medieval-style entertainments called ourselves "jongleurs". (I played my trombone, and called it a sackbut, for example. Others played recorders, shawms, rackets, and other odd instrucments. Some of us sang madrigals. And some did non-musical acts.)

Don José November 07, 2011 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrholt (Post 118458)
In the US at least, minstrel, with no other context, usually implies a (street) performer from the Middle Ages.

i was thinking in that "minstrel show" you mentioned. Apart from that, I think the conclusion is that "jongleur" and "minstrel" have the same meaning.

poli: I already learnt the word "busker" when busking myself in Ireland. That word, anyway, is a "recent" word:

Quote:

Origin of BUSKER

busk, probably from Italian buscare to procure, gain, from Spanish buscar to look forFirst Known Use: 1857


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/busker


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