Colocaciones

[laepelba]

Hola!! When I was in Uruguay last week, I spent most of my time with an Uruguayan friend who happens to be an English teacher. She showed me a book that she uses that was published by Oxford and is a dictionary of English collocations. I took some time looking through it and think it's MARVELOUS! Having a dictionary is one thing, and is important. But the use of collocations in language is also invaluable.

I have tried to find something similar for the Spanish language and am stuck. I have tried looking at Oxford's publications and at Amazon and through general googling, and can't find anything that comes in book form. There is a website that has colocaciones: http://www.dicesp.com/paginas , but I can't find a book...

Does anyone know of any such thing? I'd love to get my hands on one!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Hola!! When I was in Uruguay last week, I spent most of my time with an Uruguayan friend who happens to be an English teacher. She showed me a book that she uses that was published by Oxford and is a dictionary of English collocations. I took some time looking through it and think it's MARVELOUS! Having a dictionary is one thing, and is important. But the use of collocations in language is also invaluable.

I have tried to find something similar for the Spanish language and am stuck. I have tried looking at Oxford's publications and at Amazon and through general googling, and can't find anything that comes in book form. There is a website that has colocaciones: http://www.dicesp.com/paginas , but I can't find a book...

Does anyone know of any such thing? I'd love to get my hands on one!

You mean as in "edit"?

In Spanish "colocaciones" doesn't exist with that meaning. It could mean investments and jobs/employment.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Hola!! When I was in Uruguay last week,

I must use this in conversation whenever I can. Welcome back, by the way.

Originally Posted by chileno

You mean as in "edit"?

In Spanish "colocaciones" doesn't exist with that meaning. It could mean investments and jobs/employment.

I think she means standard expressions, phrases which join two concepts and sound natural. and wrong when two different ones are joined.

For example: To elicit a favour

[laepelba]

Oh. I don't know what you mean by "edit". But in English the word is "collocation". (Definition: "Collocations in English refer to the tendency for words to occur regularly with others. For example, nouns and verbs that go together (ride a bike/ drive a car).") See this page: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...w&ved=0CBQQkAE

When I typed "collocation" into webreference's dictionary, it said that the Spanish word is "colocación". Sorry for the confusion of terms....

Anyway - does anyone know of such a thing that has been published for the Spanish language. I would find it to be extremely helpful!!

Originally Posted by Perikles

I must use this in conversation whenever I can. Welcome back, by the way.

I think she means standard expressions, phrases which join two concepts and sound natural. and wrong when two different ones are joined.

For example: To elicit a favour

We posted at the same time. That is exactly what I meant.

Glad you like my sentence ... we all ought to go to Uruguay more often so that we can say that more often.......... "Last week when I was in Uruguay...."

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Oh. I don't know what you mean by "edit". But in English the word is "collocation". (Definition: "Collocations in English refer to the tendency for words to occur regularly with others. For example, nouns and verbs that go together (ride a bike/ drive a car).") See this page: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...w&ved=0CBQQkAE

When I typed "collocation" into webreference's dictionary, it said that the Spanish word is "colocación". Sorry for the confusion of terms....

Anyway - does anyone know of such a thing that has been published for the Spanish language. I would find it to be extremely helpful!!

I see.

It is pretty much, the way i see it, what Irma was talking about -ly words, and the conversation deviated to how to use adverbs...

It goes with adjectives too.

Un pobre hombre supposedly is not the same as un hombre pobre.

An editor had to look out for those type of collocations in Spanish, and I guess in English too?

[Perikles]

Yes - such a book would be really useful, but I'm not aware there is one for Spanish.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

I see.

It is pretty much, the way i see it, what Irma was talking about -ly words, and the conversation deviated to how to use adverbs...

It goes with adjectives too.

Un pobre hombre supposedly is not the same as un hombre pobre.

An editor had to look out for those type of collocations in Spanish, and I guess in English too?

Right. What I am looking for is a compilation of these collocations in published form. If you know of one that exists... I have seen it in English. I would like to find the same thing, but in Spanish.

So, does anyone know of something like that?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Right. What I am looking for is a compilation of these collocations in published form. If you know of one that exists... I have seen it in English. I would like to find the same thing, but in Spanish.

So, does anyone know of something like that?

Most likely Rusty, Angélica, Irma or JuanP will know.

[JPablo]

Bueno, así, de buenas a primeras, no conozco un diccionario o glosario de colocaciones pero en español se suelen llamar "colocaciones lingüísticas" o lo que Moliner llama "enlaces frecuentes".

Zuluaga, Alberto. 2002. Los «enlaces frecuentes» de María Moliner. Observaciones sobre las llamadas colocaciones. Lingüística española actual 24.97-114.

Si buscas "colocaciones léxicas" puedes tener ejemplos.

Aquí hay un link que puede ser útil,
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...4ch3_5hQVwusJg

Aquí hay otro,
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:E6XZ8xv_5N4J:www.csdl.tamu.edu/~crln/2003bibs/spanish.pdf+%22colocacion+LINGUISTICA%22&hl=en&gl= us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShUP4KwfIMNR6Id9uMFi1MFnYBRpm AFFq48uLza11RNk0npZRtj4SOxDyE_HBdda0s8KNUzTqT-CC4-FVGh5148GkcqCXsucu8rofYnZltn5qVP4oHT8mhR-CX3N-d88JF2SqjP&sig=AHIEtbRhla6hbiOVi7gtwR8TSCx7RnYFAA

If you know of a specific dictionary or glossary, I'll be very interested, as this type of aspect is what is normally the bugbear of a translator...
There are many other links on the subject (couldn't find a dictionary, though)
http://www.libreriaaurea.com/Colocac...o--sh1753.html

[Rusty]

Do you want a book written in English or Spanish?
If in Spanish, you can search google.books.com for 'colocaciones', 'combinaciones sintagmáticas', or 'solidaridades lexicas'.

If in English, you can search for 'Spanish collocations'. I spent a lot of time reading excerpts!

New Trends in English Teacher Education, by Ignacio Ramos, A. Jesús Moya Guijarro, José Ignacio Albentosa Hernández, looked interesting, but may not contain enough examples.

Thinking Spanish Translation: a course in ..., by By Sándor G. J. Hervey, Sándor Hervey, Ian Higgins, etc., looked nice.

[laepelba]

Thanks, you two - these are some great links. I'll be checking them out. I'd love a book in print (in Spanish....) ... but a website(s) will suffice if I can't get my hands on a paper copy.... Let me tell you how fabulous that book was with the English collocations!!

[trecer]

What you are looking for is "locuciones verbales" (referred to in English as verbal collocations). Georgetown UP just published a book, "3000 locuciones verbales" that you will find useful. It serves as a dictionary of Spanish verbal combinations and is very good.

[Rusty]

The rest of the book title is 'y combinaciones frecuentes'. The book is written in Spanish.

[laepelba]

THANKS, both of you - quite pricey, but definitely something I'll put on my wishlist and hope someone notices....

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

THANKS, both of you - quite pricey, but definitely something I'll put on my wishlist and hope someone notices....

If you are going to Argentina, try to get it over there. It should be less expensive, unless it is published here in the States and imported to South America.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

If you are going to Argentina, try to get it over there. It should be less expensive, unless it is published here in the States and imported to South America.

Last summer I found that books weren't so much less expensive there. And I would have to assume that Georgetown UP is an American publishing house... I'll definitely look into it.....

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Last summer I found that books weren't so much less expensive there. And I would have to assume that Georgetown UP is an American publishing house... I'll definitely look into it.....

Correct. My advise is to look for a publisher in Argentina via internet and then choose your books.

[ciuil]

Hello people!

This is my first mail, I am a just out of the oven muffin! I mean only two days old in the forum, and I want to start my participation with this more than interesting thread!

It is some time I left my technical inclination looking for something more in the human side, so I decided to help leveling (translating) languages and helping people who do not want (or cannot) learn other language to understand each other.

Now, to the thread: I think the real reason we are not finding a "collocation" literature in Spanish is due to the particular building of the language, that is, English is one of those loose languages where the format, and the meanings, do not follow any particular set of rules, or to be more specific, they follow only a very loose set of rules that sometimes (very often) change from England to USA to India to any other place where English is spoken, keeping in mind this was so until lately when 'globalization' and Internet started to unify into a more homogeneous group the biggest concentration of people, while Spanish is a fully structured language that even has a RAE to follow (and somewhat create) the development of the tongue.

In this scenario, since there is no way to introduce any order into English, the language follows the whims of the speakers, and their environment. You will be surprised to find that some "collocations" considered "good ones" in some parts of England, are not so common in other parts of the isle, not to mention the rest of the world.

As a final consideration, we can remember that even in the somewhat corseted structure of Spanish, this language changes following the way Spanish speaking people use it, and not too close to the RAE, that cannot stop the development of the language despite the effort of purism.

This is only my point of view, of course!

Happy to be here!