"se les ve" vs "se ven"?

[createdamadman]

I have the following sentence:

"—No se preocupe —dijo girándose de nuevo a los muchachos—, se les ve buenas personas. Evite los prejuicios; le irá mucho mejor."

I understand that "se les ve" means "they look like" or "they seem like", but couldn't you also use "se ven" to mean this? Is there any important differences between the two?

[elchocoano]

This looks a lot like a previous post of mine on August 26.

1. (a los muchachos) se les ve buenas personas

this is an impersonal use of se that has essentially the same meaning as a passive reflexive se: they are seen as good people
The "les" is an example of a kind of leísmo; it is a direct object pronoun
this usage only occurs in the third-person singular

2. (los muchachos) se ven buenas personas

this is reciprocal se: they see themselves as good people
third-person plural (could also be third-person singular for reflexive se)

So they have different meanings in who is doing the seeing.


I found this article to be useful in identifying/classifying some of the usages of se:

https://mydailyspanish.com/passive-se-impersonal-se/

Note in particular the type-2 classification: se + transitive verb + personal a
It is a hybrid of the passive and the impersonal.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by createdamadman

I understand that "se les ve" means "they look like" or "they seem like", but couldn't you also use "se ven" to mean this? Is there any important differences between the two?

You are right, the same idea could have been expressed with "se ven buenas personas".
"Se les ve buenas personas" is an impersonal construction.
"Se ven buenas personas" is a case of "voz pasiva refleja", which is often confused with reflexive sentences.
It's hard to explain the differences between all of them, but in this context, you can easily replace "se les ve" with "se ven".

Originally Posted by elchocoano

2. (los muchachos) se ven buenas personas

this is reciprocal se: they see themselves as good people
third-person plural (could also be third-person singular for reflexive se)

So they have different meanings in who is doing the seeing.

I'll have to disagree here.
Since there is room for confusion, if someone says "se ven buenas personas" this is an opinion from the part of the speaker about other people, not the perception they have of themselves.
Keeping the construction, the speaker would have had to clarify: "Se ven a sí mismos como buenas personas".
Yet, we would have preferred a more natural reflexive construction like:
- Se sienten buenas personas.
- Se creen buenas personas.

Your link is pretty good. Check the paragraph about "voz pasiva refleja".


I'll be happy to answer questions, it's not an easy topic to explain.