Acudir + Preposition

[silopanna]

List Members,

I wish to inquire about the proper preposition to use after the verb acudir.

I actually understand the meanings that acudir has, and basically how to use it, and I know that the main preposition that is used with the verb is the preposition "a".

But can we ever use the preposition "de"? Could I say: "Él se acudió de los recursos que su amigo le ofreció"?

And it usually has to be used with an abjective pronoun, right?

Any tips would be appreciated.

Silopanna Dean

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I have never seen this verb used in a pronominal way, and I don't feel it to be correct... maybe in some other countries.
I've always seen "acudir a (alguien/un lugar)", except "acudir en la ayuda de alguien".

Todos acudimos a su encuentro.
We all went there to meet him.

Tuve que acudir a un prestamista para conseguir el dinero que necesitaba.
I had to go to a moneylender to get the money I needed.

El perro siempre acude a mi llamado.
The dog always comes when I call it.

Los bomberos acudieron en su ayuda cuando se le incendió la casa.
The firemen went to help her when her house burned down.

[silopanna]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

I have never seen this verb used in a pronominal way, and I don't feel it to be correct... maybe in some other countries.
I've always seen "acudir a (alguien/un lugar)", except "acudir en la ayuda de alguien".

Todos acudimos a su encuentro.
We all went there to meet him.

Tuve que acudir a un prestamista para conseguir el dinero que necesitaba.
I had to go to a moneylender to get the money I needed.

El perro siempre acude a mi llamado.
The dog always comes when I call it.

Los bomberos acudieron en su ayuda cuando se le incendió la casa.
The firemen went to help her when her house burned down.

Angelica,

Thank you for your explanation. So the preposition is "a", except for maybe "en", given the situation in your example.

I like the fact that I can always get a native speaker of Spanish on this forum.

Later!

Dean

[JPablo]

Sí siempre puedes acudir a nosotros en busca de consejo.
Puedes acudir en busca de ejemplos.

Yo puedo acudir con mis respuestas. (Este uso, usando "con" es también correcto, aunque quizá no muy usual.)

El médico acudió con todo su equipo de emergencia.

‘A él le acuden todas las desdichas’. = 'Todas las desdichas le suceden a él.'

En el sentido de 10. intr. Replicar o contestar, objetar.
Se puede decir, "Acudió con toda una serie de argumentos en contra de la propuesta de ley".

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Agreed. "Acudir con algo/alguien" as to come bringing something/someone along is also commonly heard.

[JPablo]

Muy bien.
Estaba pensando que "a", "en" y "con" son las preposiciones que pueden ir con "acudir" pero que en un contexto dado la frase se podría construir con cualquier preposición, siempre y cuando no estuviera "ligada" al verbo.
Es decir,
"Acudió ante la duda de...
"Acudió contra su voluntad...
"Acudió bajo presión de los partidos de oposición....
"Acudió desde Madrid...
"Acudió por quedar bien con el público...
"Acudió para satisfacer a las personas que solicitaron su presencia...
"Acudió de incógnito...
"Acudió hasta las 10 y luego se fue.
Etcétera... Lo que veo es que en todos estos ejemplos que doy, queda implícito que es "Acudió a un lugar", de alguna forma ese "a" queda entendido ahí.

No intention to make things more complex for Silopanna, but just to alert you to the fact that you may find other prepositions than "a" "en" or "con", but should be able to understand the meaning. (I hope this is clear, let me know if otherwise.)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I think the most important thing is that although the use of "acudir" as "asistir" can be complemented with different prepositions, according to some special situations, and that it's never used as a pronominal verb.

[silopanna]

Angelica and J Pablo,

Well, I do follow the explanation about the prepositions very well, and I thank you all. I think that I will be able to employ that verb naturally.

But it can never be used as a pronomial verb? What about "Se acudió a los recursos disponibles"? / He helped himself to the resources available.

Dean

[chileno]

Originally Posted by silopanna

Angelica and J Pablo,

Well, I do follow the explanation about the prepositions very well, and I thank you all. I think that I will be able to employ that verb naturally.

But it can never be used as a pronomial verb? What about "Se acudió a los recursos disponibles"? / He helped himself to the resources available.

Dean

Not that way.

The translation would be more or less "it was taken to the available resources"

[silopanna]

Chileno,

Now I understand. So for all practical purposes, acudir is not used as a pronomial verb, as Angelica already told me.

Thanks, folks, I think I've got it.

Silopanna/Dean

[irmamar]

"Acudir" is not used as a pronominal verb, although you'll be able to find the form "acudirse" in impersonal sentences (which doesn't mean that it is a pronominal use from "acudir"):

Ante un peligro, debe acudirse a la autoridad competente.
Si existen dudas con el vocabulario, puede acudirse al diccionario.
Puede acudirse a las diferentes bases de datos si no se encuentra el registro.
Tras el nacimiento, debe acudirse al Registro Civil para notificar el hecho y dar de alta al recién nacido.
etc.


Edit: "se acudió a los recursos disponibles" is a completely correct sentence, but note its impersonal use.

[silopanna]

Originally Posted by irmamar

"Acudir" is not used as a pronominal verb, although you'll be able to find the form "acudirse" in impersonal sentences (which doesn't mean that it is a pronominal use from "acudir"):

Ante un peligro, debe acudirse a la autoridad competente.
Si existen dudas con el vocabulario, puede acudirse al diccionario.
Puede acudirse a las diferentes bases de datos si no se encuentra el registro.
Tras el nacimiento, debe acudirse al Registro Civil para notificar el hecho y dar de alta al recién nacido.
etc.


Edit: "se acudió a los recursos disponibles" is a completely correct sentence, but note its impersonal use.

Irmamar,

Thank you for your further elucidation. I see how the pronoun is employed when the verb is used in the impersonal construction; and your examples make it all very clear. No problem, really, my original lack of understanding is all cleared up.

Still, I would like to ask something else because, you know, an answer can sometimes lead to another question: when you construct in this impersonal way, is this what we call the passive voice in English?

Thanks for the attention.

Silopanna/Dean

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by silopanna

Still, I would like to ask something else because, you know, an answer can sometimes lead to another question: when you construct in this impersonal way, is this what we call the passive voice in English?

It's not passive voice, but it's frequently used as a technique for avoiding having to use the passive voice.

No es la voz pasiva, pero se usa a menudo como técnica para evitar tener que usar la voz pasiva.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

It's actually a form of passive voice. It's called "voz pasiva refleja".
An active verb is used in the third person (singular and plural) with "se", which is used to replace something or someone indeterminate (who is performing the action).

No se sabe dónde desapareció el avión.
It is not known where the plane disappeared.

Juan gasta mucho dinero. Se diría que es millonario.
Juan spends too much money. One would say he's a millionaire.

Se habla inglés.
English spoken.

[JPablo]

It is funny...
Acuden a mi memoria recuerdos del inefable Jesús Hermida, (corresponsal de Televisión Española en Nueva York). Solía dar sus informes en los TeleDiarios y otros programas informativos, y había gente que también imitaba su manera de hablar:

"En círculos de Wall Street, se habla, se comenta, se especula, se cree, se vaticina y se espera con ansiedad... un resurgimiento de la economía a partir de la nueva injección de cordura..." (El ejemplo inventado, pero el uso, y abuso, del "se" era algo típicamente suyo...)

También recuerdo a mi profesora de lengua de bachillerato, quien le dedicó algo así como 3 clases, de 1 hora cada una, para hablar y estudiar todas la posibilidades del "se"... "Se necesita paciencia"... pero es un tema apasionante.
Se vende. = On sale.
Se venden pisos = Aparments on sale.
Se reparte a domicilio = Home delivery service [we deliver]
Se castigará a los culpables = those responsible will be punished.

And so on and so forth...

[irmamar]

Well, I wouldn't say that it's a passive form. Note that 'acudir' is not a transitive verb. You only can transform an active sentence into passive if the verb is transitive. In high school we study "se" forms" in depth (as Jpablo said, although I think we spent more than three days ).

There are two kind of passive sentence in Spanish, one of them is called pasiva perifrástica, with the verb to be. This one doesn't have a very common use. Instead, we use very often pasiva refleja, with "se". In passive sentences, the subject becomes the object (and vice versa):

Esta tienda necesita un empleado. Activa
Un empleado es necesitado por esta tienda. Pasiva perifrástica.
Se necesita un empleado. Pasiva refleja.

We use p. refleja because usually the object (subject in the active sentence) is not needed to know or we know it.

Impersonal sentences use se and their construction is almost the same:

Debe acudirse /se debe acudir al diccionario.
Se come muy bien aquí.

But there is an important difference which follows the rule "the verb must agree with the subject in number and person" (person will be third singular always, both in pasivas and impersonales. This will give you the clue to know if it is an impersonal sentence or a pasiva refleja one:

Se necesita un empleado - Se necesitan varios empleados.
Se acudirá al diccionario - - -

This link will give you additional information and examples.

[silopanna]

PJT33, Angelica, JPablo, Irmamar,

I thank the four of you for defining this verb tense for me, Pasiva Refleja. Your commentsn have cleared a few things up for me.

Silopanna

[JPablo]

You're welcome, glad to know we helped you. You can try to make examples of your own, and see how it works and let us know if any further question.