Práctica con "para" (Part Two)

[laepelba]

I started yesterday with several sentences: http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?p=25311 - and have some more today. Again, please tell me (a) if the use of "para" is correct here, and (b) if there are any other issues with the sentences of which I need to be aware.

1) Esta flor es para mi esposo.
2) Susanna me llamó para mi.
3) Estos paquetes son para los niños.
4) La enfermera está buscando para ti.
5) Para mí, los derechos humanos son más importante.
6) Educación es el llave al libertad para el pobre.

Thank you in advance for any and all help!

[Tomisimo]

There are problems with 2, 4, and 6.

2. Susanna me llamó a mí.
4. La enfermera está buscándote a tí. ("to look for" = "buscar", no preposition necessary)
6. "para" is right, but "llave" should be "clave".

[laepelba]

Thanks, David. A few more questions to clarify....

2) Is there a difference between saying "Susanna called me" and "Susanna called FOR me"? The second has the feeling of I wasn't there to take the call.... That was what I was trying to say.

6) So "clave" is more ideological and "llave" is the little metal object only?

[chileno]

1) Esta flor es para mi esposo.
This flower is for my husband (you are giving it to him)

Esta flor es por mi esposo.
This flower is for my husband (It represents something from him, Maybe he won an award, ot God forbid he's dead, and you're commemorating)

2) Susanna me llamó por mi.
Susanna called for me

Susana me llamó
Susanna called me

4) La enfermera está buscando por ti.



6) Educación es la llave al libertad para el pobre.




Hope it helps, and that it isn't too convoluted.

Hernan

[laepelba]

Not convoluted. Thanks for the help. I especially appreciate the distinctions between por y para. That's what I'm trying to study right now.

Another question for you, Hernan - can you help me distinguish between "clave" and "llave"? See my previous post - is it more like the difference between a tangible object and an idea?

Thanks!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Not convoluted. Thanks for the help. I especially appreciate the distinctions between por y para. That's what I'm trying to study right now.

Another question for you, Hernan - can you help me distinguish between "clave" and "llave"? See my previous post - is it more like the difference between a tangible object and an idea?

Thanks!

no problem...

However, I would like to see that you write in spanish and I reply in english or spanish. I am not sure how this is taken in these forums...

Maybe, we can ask for a spanish only forum, so the people interested in spanish can expose their ideas etc...and the same thing in english. :-)

In english first:

Key, used to open a door, unlock it etc. also as a clue to a puzzle (unlock a puzzle), also Clef in music.

Llave, used in music, to open a door and also to unlock a puzzle or problem.

Clave, only to unlock a puzzle or password

I hope it helps.

And don't forget, please ask in spanish. I would like to know where you are at with spanish, because if you are half as proficient as you are in English, you should be using a Spanish-Spanish dictionary first, in order to look for definitions. If you are still stuck then you should resort to a bilingual dictionary. :-)

The same thing goes for the rest of the people. And if english is the target language, then reverse the usage of the dictionaries. ;->

Hernan

[laepelba]

Hernan - thank you VERY much for your explanations about llave y clave. It definitely helps.

As for your other request.... I have, at times, attempted to ask questions IN Spanish. And I will continue to do so. But please remember that I am VERY new to learning Spanish. It takes me hours sometimes to put together a simple question for the forum here, and I simply do not have that kind of time always. Besides - when I ask in Spanish, the replies often answer my initial question AND critique the Spanish in the question (as they should), which sometimes is more than my little teeny weeny brain can handle.......

I promise - my use of the language WILL increase (I've even secured a tutor for practicing my conversation ... as of yesterday!) Thank you for your great patience with me!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Hernan - thank you VERY much for your explanations about llave y clave. It definitely helps.

As for your other request.... I have, at times, attempted to ask questions IN Spanish. And I will continue to do so. But please remember that I am VERY new to learning Spanish. It takes me hours sometimes to put together a simple question for the forum here, and I simply do not have that kind of time always. Besides - when I ask in Spanish, the replies often answer my initial question AND critique the Spanish in the question (as they should), which sometimes is more than my little teeny weeny brain can handle.......

I promise - my use of the language WILL increase (I've even secured a tutor for practicing my conversation ... as of yesterday!) Thank you for your great patience with me!

:-)

Like I stated in a previous reply to another post. If you know how to read, write and express in English, you do not have to re-learn all that in Spanish.

You see, how can I teach you what is a door in Spanish? You already know what a door is in English. Hence, in my little brain, all I can think is that what I have to do is to translate what I already know in English to Spanish.

How?

With a bilingual dictionary. Simple. :-)

It is alright to sound like: mi querer hamburgesa (me want hamburger) because you are going to eat a hamburger in Peru :-)

If after 20 years of living in Peru, you're still asking for food like that. It would seem to me that you are not interested in the Spanish language.

What say you? ;->

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

:-)

Like I stated in a previous reply to another post. If you know how to read, write and express in English, you do not have to re-learn all that in Spanish. I know ... but my brain is SO analytical that I break ALL of my thinking down into WAY WAY lots of details, and it takes a LONG time to process through it all. I'll get there - and I will learn a lot - but am not yet up to writing all of my questions/replies in Spanish....

You see, how can I teach you what is a door in Spanish? You already know what a door is in English. Hence, in my little brain, all I can think is that what I have to do is to translate what I already know in English to Spanish. You don't have to teach me basic nouns, etc., in Spanish. Really, what keeps me from being able to easily ask questions in Spanish is the sentence construction and the places where *which* word to use (word choice) is vague or rather different than what we'd use in English...

How?

With a bilingual dictionary. Simple. :-) I have one of those (somewhere - am in the process of moving to a new residence and it will take awhile to surface).... And I often use the dictionary built into Tomísimo. But see my reasons above......

It is alright to sound like: mi querer hamburgesa (me want hamburger) because you are going to eat a hamburger in Peru :-) Yeah - that sounds dumb even to my ignorant ear.... Although I'm not so sure we'll be eating hamburgers when I go to Lima. I've had my friend's cooking, and I've had her mother's cooking (her mom was in the US last fall for a couple of months). I don't know that they do much red meat....

If after 20 years of living in Peru, you're still asking for food like that. It would seem to me that you are not interested in the Spanish language. LIVING in Peru?? That's a HUGE leap!! I doubt I'll live there. I'll spend a week or two in Lima and maybe a couple of side trips to the mountains or something, but I don't see me MOVING there. You're right - if I'm still speaking Spanish 20 years from now, I'd better not be talking like an idiot!!

What say you? ;->

Thanks for your encouragement, Hernan - please keep challenging me - it REALLY helps!!!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Thanks for your encouragement, Hernan - please keep challenging me - it REALLY helps!!!

When I mentioned about living in Peru for 20 years, it was rethorically speaking. I wanted to point out that if you don't pay attention at what you are saying and what the locals are saying then most likely you are not interested in "how" they say it. :-)

Like I stated in a previous reply to another post. If you know how to read, write and express in English, you do not have to re-learn all that in Spanish. I know ... but my brain is SO analytical that I break ALL of my thinking down into WAY WAY lots of details, and it takes a LONG time to process through it all. I'll get there - and I will learn a lot - but am not yet up to writing all of my questions/replies in Spanish....

Consider this. You know perfectly well how to read and write and the meaning of the following phrase.

This book is mine

Now you look up in the dictionary and read it means le, la, los , las. Most likely you will be able to understand the description, and depending on the dictionary, it will give you more or less example of the use of these words. But for the sake of argument, let us say you make a mistake in judgement and use "la"

and as you look further in the dictionary looking for book, you are going ti get "libro".

Then "es" or "esta" and again make the mistake and use "esta"

and then you are going to get "mio"

So you construct your prase as "la libro esta mio"

Armed with that you tell a friend, and the friend laughs. :-)

However, if you get curious, instead of mad or selfconcious you are going to "learn" or capture a lot of how the language is used.

In this case your friend or interlocutor could correct you and you have to be snappy about the correction and play it in your head, Do not spend too much time mulling it over... :-)

When I arrived inthis country I had to buy a car. So as part of of the ritual, you have to perform a tune on it. I knew whow to say "where is the..." and "oil" but I did not know how to say motor. So I looked up in a little pocket dictionary I had brought with me, and it stated "engine" i tried the pronounciation and I went to Pep Boys. I asked the cashier "where is the engine oil?" :-) The guy looked at kinda puzzled and asked "you mean MOTOR oil?

At that moment a spark of intelligence, which I did not know I had. ;->, ignated my little brain, and I said YES. He told me where it was. And while I was going to get the oil, I was thinking- "incredible, it is said exactly like in spanish..."

That's all. And I hope to ignite your, and everybody else's brain too. :-)

Hernan.

[laepelba]

Hernan - está bien ... en el futuro, yo trataré a escribir en español aquí. ¿Es correcto? (Hace diez minutos escribí este...)

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Hernan - está bien ... en el futuro, yo trataré a escribir en español aquí. ¿Es correcto? (Hace diez minutos escribí este...)

Yo trataré de escribir en español.

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by laepelba

2) Is there a difference between saying "Susanna called me" and "Susanna called FOR me"? The second has the feeling of I wasn't there to take the call.... That was what I was trying to say.

Susanna called me = Susanna me llamó.
Susanna called for me = Susanna llamó por mí.

Originally Posted by laepelba

6) So "clave" is more ideological and "llave" is the little metal object only?

Yes. Llave is the physical, metalic key, a musical clef, a brace character, a wrench. Clave means clue or key in a figurative sense.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Hernan - está bien ... en el futuro, yo trataré a escribir en español aquí. ¿Es correcto? (Hace diez minutos escribí este...)

This is excellent, and here is where I would like to know what you did in english to get that phrase.

Keep in mind that I want exactly the same in english.

Está muy bien. :-)

Hernan

[laepelba]

En inglés:

To get "está bien", (no joke) I was ending my last class of the day and asked one of my Latin students the Spanish equivalent of starting sentences with "okay".

To get "en el futuro", I translated word for word from English.

I had to look up the conjugation for "trataré" (because I only know how to conjugate in the present tense right now). I still don't quite understand why it's "de" and not "a" (as per David's comment). And I'm still not sure that "en español aquí" is all in the correct order.

I've heard "¿Es correcto?" before....

And the bit about how long it took me to write ... there was a post awhile back where I received a good bit of "instruction" about how to write "Hace" with how much time ago something took or how long ago something happened. (And again had to look up the conjugation for "escribí".)

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

En inglés:

To get "está bien", (no joke) I was ending my last class of the day and asked one of my Latin students the Spanish equivalent of starting sentences with "okay".

To get "en el futuro", I translated word for word from English.

I had to look up the conjugation for "trataré" (because I only know how to conjugate in the present tense right now). I still don't quite understand why it's "de" and not "a" (as per David's comment). And I'm still not sure that "en español aquí" is all in the correct order.

I've heard "¿Es correcto?" before....

And the bit about how long it took me to write ... there was a post awhile back where I received a good bit of "instruction" about how to write "Hace" with how much time ago something took or how long ago something happened. (And again had to look up the conjugation for "escribí".)

all good and normal. :-)

Now, how about if you write the phrase you want to say in plain and simple english. Do not try to adorn it. Just very simple statements, like a kid would do, but with coherence.

Naturally you will not be sure if the result in spanish is correct.

Do not worry. Do not try to be always on target as to how it is conjugated. Just try what you think it will be understandable in spanish. Remember the "immediate" goal is not to be 100% correct. Just understandable. Friends, as is natural, will correct you, and there is when you have to be all ears. Hopefully these friends (hint, hint) will not bombard you with grammar. It should be with corrections and suggestions, instead.

I can agree with anybody that spanish conjugation is the worst nightmare!


However, this does not mean you can do away without practicing conjugating verbs in spanish. Keep on doing that. Everything will be conjugated at the end.

Hernan

[laepelba]

Gracias, Hernan - siempre estoy tan agradecido por tú ayuda.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Gracias, Hernán - siempre estoy tan agradecida por tu ayuda.

Small corrections.

[laepelba]

Okay - I'm going to dispute the first correction. He hasn't written his name with an accent on the "a", so I didn't. Thanks, Rusty, for the others.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Gracias, Hernan - siempre estoy tan agradecido por tú ayuda.

You are very welcome. Ma'am

Now, this is what I want you to do and here we are going to see the phrase you used earlier.

Hernan - está bien ... en el futuro, yo trataré a escribir en español aquí. ¿Es correcto? (Hace diez minutos escribí este...)

Had you written that phrase in English, would it have come out like this?

"Hernan - very well... in the future, I will try to write in Spanish here"

Right?

Or was it "Ok, in the future, ..."

:-)

Do you understand better now, what I want you to do first? Instead of breaking your head trying to translate immediately from your head to the written word?

State it in English, in a simple and brief way.

Now:

Originally Posted by laepelba

Okay - I'm going to dispute the first correction. He hasn't written his name with an accent on the "a", so I didn't. Thanks, Rusty, for the others.

Right.

I have to re-acquire that habit. I have been living in this country for 30 years without accent! :-)

And let me tell you it is a drag to try again...!

Hernán. ( I know how to do it (most of the time))