Translating a simple paragraph (Exercise 4-18)

[laepelba]

Continuing to work through a book of basic Spanish grammar exercises, in an attempt to fill in some of the "holes" in the learning that I've done so far. It has been (I believe) very fruitful so far.

One of the exercises in the section on the preterit asks me to translate a simple paragraph from English to Spanish. I did okay for the most part - only needed to look up a small handful of words, and the majority of the errors I made (according to their "answer" in the back of the book) were prepositions, etc. Unfortunately I DID make a couple of really "DOH!" mistakes....

I want to ask some questions, though. So I'm going to include here (1) the original English paragraph, (2) my original translation, and (3) the "corrected" translation. I will indicate my questions at the bottom of this post.



My questions are as follows:
(1) Are "sólo" and "solamente" interchangeable here?
(2) Can I say "disco compacto de música favorita" as well as "música favorita en un CD"?
(3) DOH!!
(4) Are "¿Cómo no?" and "¿Por qué no?" interchangeable here?
(5) Seriously, I can NOT figure out when to use a modifier before or after the noun. Help me with this, please!
(6) Why are these letters not capitalized?
(7) Same question as #5. Why is "nueva" here and not at the end??
(8) Come on, seriously? Did they just forget some of what was in the English? Was what I said okay?
(9) Are "algunas" and "unas" interchangeable here?
(10) Are "tomé" and "bebí" interchangeable here?
(11) Are "lentamente" and "despacio" interchangeable here? (I almost used "despacio"....)
(12) Again, are these interchangeable here?
(13) AGAIN, are "observé" and "noté" interchangeable here?
(14) Why no preposition here?
(15) Why "la" and not "mi"?
(16) Are "Desafortunadamente" and "Desgraciadamente" interchangeable here?
(17) Is this right? Their "word bank" said that "discount card" is "tarjeta de descuento".....
(18) Again, why no preposition here?

¡¡Muchas gracias!!

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Continuing to work through a book of basic Spanish grammar exercises, in an attempt to fill in some of the "holes" in the learning that I've done so far. It has been (I believe) very fruitful so far.

One of the exercises in the section on the preterit asks me to translate a simple paragraph from English to Spanish. I did okay for the most part - only needed to look up a small handful of words, and the majority of the errors I made (according to their "answer" in the back of the book) were prepositions, etc. Unfortunately I DID make a couple of really "DOH!" mistakes....

I want to ask some questions, though. So I'm going to include here (1) the original English paragraph, (2) my original translation, and (3) the "corrected" translation. I will indicate my questions at the bottom of this post.

My questions are as follows:
(1) Are "sólo" and "solamente" interchangeable here?
(2) Can I say "disco compacto de música favorita" as well as "música favorita en un CD"?
(3) DOH!!
(4) Are "¿Cómo no?" and "¿Por qué no?" interchangeable here?
(5) Seriously, I can NOT figure out when to use a modifier before or after the noun. Help me with this, please!
Gran ante del nombre significa (great significant gran hombre - great/significant man) y después del nombre significa large
(6) Why are these letters not capitalized?
(7) Same question as #5. Why is "nueva" here and not at the end??
(8) Come on, seriously? Did they just forget some of what was in the English? Was what I said okay?
(9) Are "algunas" and "unas" interchangeable here?
(10) Are "tomé" and "bebí" interchangeable here?
(11) Are "lentamente" and "despacio" interchangeable here? (I almost used "despacio"....)
(12) Again, are these interchangeable here?
(13) AGAIN, are "observé" and "noté" interchangeable here?
(14) Why no preposition here? Pagar significa search for. No tienes necesitar "para". Es parecido al verbo buscar (search for)
(15) Why "la" and not "mi"?
(16) Are "Desafortunadamente" and "Desgraciadamente" interchangeable here?
(17) Is this right? Their "word bank" said that "discount card" is "tarjeta de descuento".....
(18) Again, why no preposition here?

¡¡Muchas gracias!!

Estudié un libro así y las respuestas son buenas pero yo creo que siempre hay muchas maneras para decirlo.

[laepelba]

Bob - for #14, I know that "para" means "for". Why don't I pay FOR a book? I pay a book? Is "pagar" NEVER followed by "para"?

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Bob - for #14, I know that "para" means "for". Why don't I pay FOR a book? I pay a book? Is "pagar" NEVER followed by "para"?

Aprendí así
el verbo pagar y otros (buscar) significan "to pay for" y "to search for"

For está incluido con el verbo

Míralo

Verbs taking prepositions before nouns

Verbs not taking prepositions before nouns

pagar es parecido a ellos

[laepelba]

Thanks for that!

[bobjenkins]

También aquí está una lista más larga

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/...eId-23912.html

mira al sur de la página

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Las librerías no son (1) sólo solamente lugares para comprar libros. Las librerías son lugares cómodos para pasar el tiempo fuera de casa. Puedes leer una revista, escuchar tu (2) disco compacto de música favorita en un CD, o comer algo. La semana pasada, me (3) detení detuve en mi librería favorita. "¿(4) Cómo Por qué no?" (3) pienso pensé y entré. Vi un (5) gran anuncio grande con el título La Pinta (6) mancha negra, una (7) nueva novela de misterio nuevo. Con (8) una copia de la novela, me senté en una silla muy cómoda cerca del café. Leí (9) algunas unas páginas y decidí tomar una taza de café descafeinado. Regresé a mi silla y (10) tomé bebí mi café (11) lentamente despacio. Cuando decidí (12) a salir irme, observé noté una mancha de café en mi corbata nueva. Me levanté, (3) fue fui a la caja, pagué (14) para la novela con (15) mi la tarjeta de crédito, y salí. Desafortunadamente Desgraciadamente, el descuento que recibí con mi tarjeta de (17) descuento de un lector no pagó (18) para la cuenta de la tintorería.

(1) Are "sólo" and "solamente" interchangeable here?
-- Yes, in all cases.
Please note: Sólo (with an accent) = solamente (only); solo (without the accent) = alone

(2) Can I say "disco compacto de música favorita" as well as "música favorita en un CD"?
-- "Pasar el tiempo" means to do something (anything) with your idle time.
"Pasar tiempo fuera de casa" means to have something (nice) to do out of your home.
"Disco compacto de música favorita" sounds long and kind of boring, but it's not incorrect.
"Disco compacto" is already associated with music, so you could have said "escuchar tu disco compacto favorito" or simply "escuchar tu CD favorito"

(3) DOH!!
--

(4) Are "¿Cómo no?" and "¿Por qué no?" interchangeable here?
-- No, they aren't... ever.
"¿Cómo no?" here makes no sense, and the immediate translation to "why" is "por qué".
¿Cómo no quedarnos en casa, si la nieve no nos deja salir?
How would we not stay at home if snow won't let us out?

(5) Seriously, I can NOT figure out when to use a modifier before or after the noun. Help me with this, please!
-- Keep learning. Observe how they're used and you'll start to feel when they go where.
"Gran" and "grande" can change the meaning of the sentence, as Bob pointed out.
"Gran anuncio" means some sort of amazing sign.
"Anuncio grande" is a big one. "Grande" after the noun normally refers to size, and "gran" usually refers to other qualities that make the object outstanding.

(6) Why are these letters not capitalized?
-- Where did "pinta" come from?
I would have capitalized the three of them (I was taught to capitalize all the main words in a title); however, many people prefer to capitalize only the first letter (to me, that's an ugly French habit).

(7) Same question as #5. Why is "nueva" here and not at the end??
-- First, do you realize that "nuevo" modifies "misterio" and not "novela"? Second, as I said many times, many of the decisions on where to place an adjective are based on euphonic reasons. That's why it's important that you read and hear as much as you can, so their place will come naturally to you as you become more familiar with language.
Third, you could have said "una novela nueva de misterio".
"Una novela de misterio nueva" leaves the adjective too far away from the noun and the sentence sounds a bit clumsy.

(8) Come on, seriously? Did they just forget some of what was in the English? Was what I said okay?
-- I think that "a copy of the novel" in English means a formally printed book, but "una copia de la novela" in Spanish feels like a photocopy (or a pirate printing)
The "real" translation to Spanish would be "con un ejemplar de la novela", but "con la novela" is clear enough.

(9) Are "algunas" and "unas" interchangeable here?
-- More or less, yes. But "algunas" as "some" is less often said than "unas" (you can "catch" a foreigner by this feature.)

(10) Are "tomé" and "bebí" interchangeable here?
-- Yes, but "tomar" is more colloquial than "beber".

(11) Are "lentamente" and "despacio" interchangeable here? (I almost used "despacio"....)
-- Yes, they are.
*whisper* (I would have preferred "lentamente", or a very Mexican "despacito".)

(12) Again, are these interchangeable here?
-- Hmmm...
"Decidir" doesn't "wear" an "a".
"Cuando decidí salir(me)" = "cuando decidí irme"

(13) AGAIN, are "observé" and "noté" interchangeable here?
-- Not at all.
"Observar" means you stared at the stain and registered every little detail about the colour, the size, the depth of it...
"Notar" here means that you looked down to your tie and saw it had a *** coffee stain.

(14) Why no preposition here?
-- "Pagar algo" = to pay money for something.
"Pagar por algo" = to pay the consequences of some action.
"Pagar para" ... ...to pay money with a purpose... (in order to obtain something that is not exactly sold.)
Pagué un rescate para que me devolvieran a mi perro.
I paid a ransom so they would give me my dog back.
Pagué una fianza para poder irme a casa.
I paid a bail so I could go home.
Le pagué a Juan para que me hiciera la tarea.
I paid Juan so he would make my homework for me.

(15) Why "la" and not "mi"?
-- Like a part of your body: If you're paying with a credit card, it can't be someone else's... or you don't live very honestly.

(16) Are "Desafortunadamente" and "Desgraciadamente" interchangeable here?
-- Yes, although personally, I find "desgraciadamente" far more dramatic.

(17) Is this right? Their "word bank" said that "discount card" is "tarjeta de descuento".....
-- "Tarjeta de descuento de lector"* is right, but you already said "descuento", so "descuento" again makes the sentences unnecessarily long.
Unambiguity and elegance are the keywords for speaking good Spanish.
(*Please note: not "de un lector", because it's not "any unknown reader", but the specific reader that holds the card.)

(18) Again, why no preposition here?
-- Already answered in (14)



Btw... watch the spelling errors I marked in blue

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

(1) Are "sólo" and "solamente" interchangeable here?
-- Yes, in all cases.
Please note: Sólo (with an accent) = solamente (only); solo (without the accent) = alone

(2) Can I say "disco compacto de música favorita" as well as "música favorita en un CD"?
-- "Pasar el tiempo" means to do something (anything) with your idle time.
"Pasar tiempo fuera de casa" means to have something (nice) to do out of your home.
"Disco compacto de música favorita" sounds long and kind of boring, but it's not incorrect.
"Disco compacto" is already associated with music, so you could have said "escuchar tu disco compacto favorito" or simply "escuchar tu CD favorito"

(3) DOH!!
--

(4) Are "¿Cómo no?" and "¿Por qué no?" interchangeable here?
-- No, they aren't... ever.
"¿Cómo no?" here makes no sense, and the immediate translation to "why" is "por qué".
¿Cómo no quedarnos en casa, si la nieve no nos deja salir?
How would we not stay at home if snow won't let us out?

(5) Seriously, I can NOT figure out when to use a modifier before or after the noun. Help me with this, please!
-- Keep learning. Observe how they're used and you'll start to feel when they go where.
"Gran" and "grande" can change the meaning of the sentence, as Bob pointed out.
"Gran anuncio" means some sort of amazing sign.
"Anuncio grande" is a big one. "Grande" after the noun normally refers to size, and "gran" usually refers to other qualities that make the object outstanding.

(6) Why are these letters not capitalized?
-- Where did "pinta" come from?
I would have capitalized the three of them (I was taught to capitalize all the main words in a title); however, many people prefer to capitalize only the first letter (to me, that's an ugly French habit).

(7) Same question as #5. Why is "nueva" here and not at the end??
-- First, do you realize that "nuevo" modifies "misterio" and not "novela"? Second, as I said many times, many of the decisions on where to place an adjective are based on euphonic reasons. That's why it's important that you read and hear as much as you can, so their place will come naturally to you as you become more familiar with language.
Third, you could have said "una novela nueva de misterio".
"Una novela de misterio nueva" leaves the adjective too far away from the noun and the sentence sounds a bit clumsy.

(8) Come on, seriously? Did they just forget some of what was in the English? Was what I said okay?
-- I think that "a copy of the novel" in English means a formally printed book, but "una copia de la novela" in Spanish feels like a photocopy (or a pirate printing)
The "real" translation to Spanish would be "con un ejemplar de la novela", but "con la novela" is clear enough.

(9) Are "algunas" and "unas" interchangeable here?
-- More or less, yes. But "algunas" as "some" is less often said than "unas" (you can "catch" a foreigner by this feature.)

(10) Are "tomé" and "bebí" interchangeable here?
-- Yes, but "tomar" is more colloquial than "beber".

(11) Are "lentamente" and "despacio" interchangeable here? (I almost used "despacio"....)
-- Yes, they are.
*whisper* (I would have preferred "lentamente", or a very Mexican "despacito".)

(12) Again, are these interchangeable here?
-- Hmmm...
"Decidir" doesn't "wear" an "a".
"Cuando decidí salir(me)" = "cuando decidí irme"

(13) AGAIN, are "observé" and "noté" interchangeable here?
-- Not at all.
"Observar" means you stared at the stain and registered every little detail about the colour, the size, the depth of it...
"Notar" here means that you looked down to your tie and saw it had a *** coffee stain.

(14) Why no preposition here?
-- "Pagar algo" = to pay money for something.
"Pagar por algo" = to pay the consequences of some action.
"Pagar para" ... ...to pay money with a purpose... (in order to obtain something that is not exactly sold.)
Pagué un rescate para que me devolvieran a mi perro.
I paid a ransom so they would give me my dog back.
Pagué una fianza para poder irme a casa.
I paid a bail so I could go home.
Le pagué a Juan para que me hiciera la tarea.
I paid Juan so he would make my homework for me.

(15) Why "la" and not "mi"?
-- Like a part of your body: If you're paying with a credit card, it can't be someone else's... or you don't live very honestly.

(16) Are "Desafortunadamente" and "Desgraciadamente" interchangeable here?
-- Yes, although personally, I find "desgraciadamente" far more dramatic.

(17) Is this right? Their "word bank" said that "discount card" is "tarjeta de descuento".....
-- "Tarjeta de descuento de lector"* is right, but you already said "descuento", so "descuento" again makes the sentences unnecessarily long.
Unambiguity and elegance are the keywords for speaking good Spanish.
(*Please note: not "de un lector", because it's not "any unknown reader", but the specific reader that holds the card.)

(18) Again, why no preposition here?
-- Already answered in (14)



Btw... watch the spelling errors I marked in blue

Muchas gracias es buena información

[Here4good]

Very interesting - thank you to everyone.
I can really feel the original poster's frustration with por/ para etc and un gran anuncio and un anuncio grande, but as people have said, the more contact you have with the language the more feel you get for it so you'll have to save up your pasta as they say here in Spain, or plata as they say in Colombia, and travel!!
My learning experience has been a little different as I was thrown in at the deep end and often know that something sounds right but don't know the wheres and whyfores behind it.
At the risk of making a fool of myself, I have two questions myself about the translation...

Bookstores are not just places to buy books.
I came up with a different position for sólo. Is this acceptable?
Las librerías no sólo son sitios para comprar libros.

"Why not?" I thought, and went inside.
¿Por qué no? pensaba y entré
Pensaba???

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Why don't I pay FOR a book? I pay a book? Is "pagar" NEVER followed by "para"?

There doesn't seem to be any logical reason - sometimes the root of the verb explains, but pagar comes from L. pacare to pacify, which is no help. This is always a problem for me, because I can't remember anything which has no reason behind it.

If you think of pay for a book as being shorthand for pay the bill (for a book) that may be a useful mnemonic.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

(2) Can I say "disco compacto de música favorita" as well as "música favorita en un CD"?
-- "Pasar el tiempo" means to do something (anything) with your idle time.
"Pasar tiempo fuera de casa" means to have something (nice) to do out of your home.
"Disco compacto de música favorita" sounds long and kind of boring, but it's not incorrect.
"Disco compacto" is already associated with music, so you could have said "escuchar tu disco compacto favorito" or simply "escuchar tu CD favorito"
- The funny thing here is that their word bank said to use "disco compacto" for CD. (sigh...)

(6) Why are these letters not capitalized?
-- Where did "pinta" come from?
I would have capitalized the three of them (I was taught to capitalize all the main words in a title); however, many people prefer to capitalize only the first letter (to me, that's an ugly French habit).
- I found "pinta" in the Tomisimo dictionary under "spot". There were so many, I wasn't sure which to use... In English, we capitalize every word in the title of a book, etc. I didn't know if this is something that varies by language...

(7) Same question as #5. Why is "nueva" here and not at the end??
-- First, do you realize that "nuevo" modifies "misterio" and not "novela"? Second, as I said many times, many of the decisions on where to place an adjective are based on euphonic reasons. That's why it's important that you read and hear as much as you can, so their place will come naturally to you as you become more familiar with language.
Third, you could have said "una novela nueva de misterio".
"Una novela de misterio nueva" leaves the adjective too far away from the noun and the sentence sounds a bit clumsy.
- I was wondering about the gender of a noun phrase like "novela de misterio". I went back and forth between nuevo and nueva.... I like "una novela nueva de misterio", but wouldn't have guessed that you can split up the noun phrase like that. Good to know!

(10) Are "tomé" and "bebí" interchangeable here?
-- Yes, but "tomar" is more colloquial than "beber".
- Yet, they used tomar in the previous sentence...??

Thanks, Malila, for all the time and energy you put into answering my questions!! Every single one of your answers was very helpful!

Originally Posted by Here4good

"Why not?" I thought, and went inside.
¿Por qué no? pensaba y entré
Pensaba???

Well, in this case, the chapter on the preterit comes before the chapter on the imperfect, so it would't be "pensaba". There is probably some kind of correct grammatical reason ... but that's MY reason.

Originally Posted by Perikles

There doesn't seem to be any logical reason - sometimes the root of the verb explains, but pagar comes from L. pacare to pacify, which is no help. This is always a problem for me, because I can't remember anything which has no reason behind it.

If you think of pay for a book as being shorthand for pay the bill (for a book) that may be a useful mnemonic.

Helpful! Thanks!

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by Here4good

At the risk of making a fool of myself, I have two questions myself about the translation...

Bookstores are not just places to buy books.
I came up with a different position for sólo. Is this acceptable?
Las librerías no sólo son sitios para comprar libros.

"Why not?" I thought, and went inside.
¿Por qué no? pensaba y entré
Pensaba???

You can say both "no solo son" and "no son solo".

By the way, rules about the accent on "solo" have changed. The accent is only used to avoid misinterpretation. For instance:

Entré solo en la librería (nadie más iba conmigo).
Entré sólo en la librería (entré solamente en la ibrería, no entré en ningún otro comercio).

But many people (as myself) have studied that it's compulsory to use the accent on "sólo" when it is equivalent to "solamente", and you'll find it usually in this way.

Look here.

And "pensé y entré", no pensaba.

Originally Posted by Perikles

This is always a problem for me, because I can't remember anything which has no reason behind it.

What do you think about phrasal verbs?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

What do you think about phrasal verbs?

Not much

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Not much

I think very much of them.

[Here4good]

Originally Posted by irmamar

You can say both "no solo son" and "no son solo".

By the way, rules about the accent on "solo" have changed. The accent is only used to avoid misinterpretation. For instance:

Entré solo en la librería (nadie más iba conmigo).
Entré sólo en la librería (entré solamente en la ibrería, no entré en ningún otro comercio).

But many people (as myself) have studied that it's compulsory to use the accent on "sólo" when it is equivalent to "solamente", and you'll find it usually in this way.

Look here.

And "pensé y entré", no pensaba.



What do you think about phrasal verbs?

Thanks for the info!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Lou Ann:

- The funny thing here is that their word bank said to use "disco compacto" for CD. (sigh...)
-> You have to know what CD stands for in Spanish, don't you?

- "I found "pinta" in the Tomisimo dictionary"
-> When you are in doubt, check your Spanish-Spanish dictionary. The effort to understand each word is worth it and you will know for sure which word fits better your context.

- "wouldn't have guessed that you can split up the noun phrase"
-> Sometimes you can, sometimes you cannot. There are some nouns that cannot be separated... maybe it would be good that you took a moment to read the topic about it. (I might post the link later)

- "they used tomar in the previous sentence"
-> So "beber" is used to avoid repetition. (One rule for "elegance" is to avoid repetition... in all languages)

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Lou Ann:

- The funny thing here is that their word bank said to use "disco compacto" for CD. (sigh...)
-> You have to know what CD stands for in Spanish, don't you?
Oh, yes, of course. I just don't understand why the use a word bank (which is specifically given FOR THE TRANSLATION exercise) and then use synonyms instead of the words in the bank. Gah!

- "I found "pinta" in the Tomisimo dictionary"
-> When you are in doubt, check your Spanish-Spanish dictionary. The effort to understand each word is worth it and you will know for sure which word fits better your context.
You're right. I'm lazy.

- "wouldn't have guessed that you can split up the noun phrase"
-> Sometimes you can, sometimes you cannot. There are some nouns that cannot be separated... maybe it would be good that you took a moment to read the topic about it. (I might post the link later)
If you think of it, I'd appreciate that!

- "they used tomar in the previous sentence"
-> So "beber" is used to avoid repetition. (One rule for "elegance" is to avoid repetition... in all languages)
Gotcha. Spanish and synonyms.....

Thanks, as always!!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Here: http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=6930

I think the work bank also needs some thinking for adapting it to your needs.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Here: http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=6930

I think the work bank also needs some thinking for adapting it to your needs.

Thanks! I remember seeing that thread - it's somewhat recent. I got a bit frustrated with it because in the first thread the statement is given: "El manual detallado de escritura", which makes no sense to me. I think that "manual de escritura" means writing manual, but I don't know what a "detailed writing manual" would be. Nor do I understand the other sentence "La máquina de escribir bonita", which seems to sound like someone is trying to say something about a "pretty typewriter". ???

Anyway - Irmamar gave some great links that I will continue to look at. Thanks again!!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Nor do I understand the other sentence "La máquina de escribir bonita", which seems to sound like someone is trying to say something about a "pretty typewriter". ???

I suppose it depends on what lights your fuse. But bonita can also mean nice or tidy so you could say "that's a neat little typewriter" without anybody raising an eyebrow.