Translating a simple paragraph (Exercise 7-11)

[laepelba]

Continuing to work through a book of basic Spanish grammar exercises, in an attempt to fill in some of the "holes" in the learning that I've done so far. It has been (I believe) very fruitful so far.

One of the exercises in the chapter covering the future and conditional tenses asks me to translate a simple paragraph from English to Spanish. I did okay for the most part - only needed to look up a small handful of words, and the majority of the errors I made (according to their "answer" in the back of the book) were my usual - prepositions, word order, etc.

I want to ask some questions, though. So I'm going to include here (1) the original English paragraph, (2) my original translation, and (3) the "corrected" translation. I will indicate my questions at the bottom of this post.

My Questions:
1) Okay, so I know that translation does not work best word-for-word, but I really don't get this one. What is it that implies the "probably" part?
2) I don't get this, either. Why don't "un/a" and "poco/a" need to agree with "rara"?
3) Are "cada mañana" and "todas las mañanas" interchangeable here for "every morning"? Now that I think about it, even if so, "todas las...." is more common, though, right?
4) I looked this one up. The English version says, specifically, "front door". Are "puerta entrada" or "puerta enfrente" acceptable for "front door"? Isn't "puerta de su casa" more general than what the English implied?
5) I simply do NOT understand when to use and when not to use capitals in Spanish. So, in Spanish do you only capitalize only the first word in a title?
6) (Two places.) Please explain to me the difference between "decir sobre" and "contar". I know that I don't exactly use "decir", "hablar", "describir" and "contar" quite correctly because they don't correspond exactly to "tell", "speak", "describe" and "relate (a story)". Also, I assume that "contar" is one of those verbs that does not require a preposition, right?
7) Again with the capitalization..... Only capitalize the first word of a title?
8) Are "escenario" and "escena" interchangeable here?
9) This capitalization error needs a different explanation for me. It's not about titles here. If "The Shrew" is the name of the character, then why aren't both words capitalized? Or at least "Shrew"? Isn't it a proper name? ?????
10) As much as I'm learning from this book, their use of the word banks is driving me crazy. They give a specific word bank connected to a specific exercise, and then the answers in the back of the book use different words. So if I'm expected to use different words, then I wish they just wouldn't give a word bank. Ugh! So, question: are "protagonista" and "personaje principal" interchangeable? Which is more commonly used?
11) Why "ahí" and not "aquí"? The English is "here she comes now".
12) Why not "ahora"? The English is "here she comes now".
13) When do you use "llevar" and when do you use "ponerse" for wearing certain kinds of attire?
14) This is another example of the fact that I know that translation does not work best word-for-word (see #1). But is my translation okay and theirs simply better? Or can you comment for me on the syntax used here?

As always, thank you SO much for all of your help!!

[Perikles]

I can offer an answer to 1) at least:

"Supposition or probability with regard to something in the present can be expressed with verb forms other than those most frequently associated with the present"

Estará en casa
He/she must be home now

This doesn't mean your original was wrong, but this form here is much easier to use.

[laepelba]

Thanks, Perikles - it sure does sound better!

[laepelba]

Still pondering that answer, Perikles ... I'm going to start a new thread about just that one topic.... I'm going to copy your stuff from here, and quote it there.

Added later: here's the link to the other thread: http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=7380

[chileno]

Lets' dissect this a bit more.

Now, remember you are the ones who know grammar.

My neighbor Lidia is probably a good person, but she is a bit unusual.- Mi vecina Lidia es probablemente una buena persona, pero ella es un poco inusual.

Mi vecina Lidia probablemente será una buena persona, pero ella es un poco inusual. My neighbor Lidia will be a good person, but she is a bit unusual.

Is this correct in both languages? If not, please explain, as far as grammar and usage is concerned. :-)

Thanks

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Mi vecina Lidia (1) probablemente es una buena persona será muy buena, pero ella está es (2) una poca poco rara. (3) Cada mañana Todas las mañanas, Lidia lee el periódico. Hoy Lidia abrirá la puerta de (4) entrada su casa, recogerá el periódico, y leerá su sección favorita: "Espectáculos". Ella leerá un título como "Mesa para (5) dos" y querrá (6) decirme sobre contarme la película. Y vendrá con su taza de café a mi cocina, y (6) describirá contará el último capítulo de su telenovela favorita: "La (7) fiera domada". Ella Traerá una lista de las posibles (8) escenarios escenas finales: ¿Se casará (9) La fiera (¡ese es el nombre (10) de la protagonista del personaje principal!) con Leonardo? ¿Comprará Leonardo un anillo de diamantes? ¿Tendrán una boda sensacional? ¿Vivirán en un lugar exótico? ¿O habrá un final totalmente inesperado y sorprendente? (11) Aquí Ahí viene Lidia (12) ahora. (13) Llevaré Me pondré mis tapones para los oídos, y (14) sonreiré feliz cuando ella hablará mientras habla, sonreiré feliz.

1) Okay, so I know that translation does not work best word-for-word, but I really don't get this one. What is it that implies the "probably" part?
● Perikles is right.
I see you're already dealing with future tense, so the natural thing is that most verbs in your paragraph will have to be conjugated in "futuro".
(Otherwise, "probablemente es una buena persona" is well written).


2) I don't get this, either. Why don't "un/a" and "poco/a" need to agree with "rara"?
● Adverbs, adverbs, adverbs!


3) Are "cada mañana" and "todas las mañanas" interchangeable here for "every morning"? Now that I think about it, even if so, "todas las...." is more common, though, right?
● Yes (interchangeable), and yes (more common).


4) I looked this one up. The English version says, specifically, "front door". Are "puerta entrada" or "puerta enfrente" acceptable for "front door"? Isn't "puerta de su casa" more general than what the English implied?
● (Please note: "Puerta de entrada" and "puerta de enfrente")
Quite the contrary: These are names to say the purpose or the place of doors, in any building.
"La puerta de la casa" can only be the entrance door of one's home.


5) I simply do NOT understand when to use and when not to use capitals in Spanish. So, in Spanish do you only capitalize only the first word in a title?
● I think I've told you: one capitalizes the main words in a title. Not doing that (to me) is an ugly French habit. I think you were right to write "Mesa para Dos".


6) (Two places.) Please explain to me the difference between "decir sobre" and "contar". I know that I don't exactly use "decir", "hablar", "describir" and "contar" quite correctly because they don't correspond exactly to "tell", "speak", "describe" and "relate (a story)". Also, I assume that "contar" is one of those verbs that does not require a preposition, right?
● "Decir algo sobre algo/alguien" is to state an opinion on something/someone.
.....--¿Qué querías decirme sobre el cuento? (What did you want to tell me about the story?)
.....-- Quería decirte que está mal escrito y que no me gusta. (I wanted to say that it's bad written and I don't like it.)

.....· Sobre Ana, quiero decirte que tomaste la decisión correcta al contratarla. (About Ana, I want to tell you that you made the right decision when you hired her.)

As for "describir", I'm bothered to see "describe the last chapter" in English, because in Spanish is not used like that...
"Describir" is used to tell the features of a person, a character, an object...
.....-- ¿Cómo describirías al hombre de tus sueños? (How would you describe the man of your dreams?)
.....-- Honesto, cariñoso y sensible. (Honest, loving and sensitive)


.....-- ¿Podría describirme la alfombra que vio? (Could you describe the carpet you saw?
.....-- Claro, era muy colorida, con dibujos orientales y una estrella amarilla al centro. (Of course, it was very colourful, with Oriental drawings and a yellow star in the center.)

.....-- Describa al ladrón que le robó. (Describe the man who stole from you.)
.....-- Era alto, rubio, con bigote. (He was tall, blonde, with a moustache.)

"Contarle (algo) a alguien" is to narrate something to someone.
"Contarle de algo a alguien" is to tell someone about something.

.....· Cuéntame, ¿cómo has estado? (Tell me, how have you been?)
.....· Me contó que estuvo en el hospital. (He told me --and added details about it-- that he had been in hospital.
.....· Le conté La Bella Durmiente y se quedó dormida. (I told her the story of the Sleeping Beauty and she fell asleep.)
.....· Me contaron todo el capítulo que me perdí de la telenovela. (They narrated me the whole chapter I missed of the soap opera.)


7) Again with the capitalization..... Only capitalize the first word of a title?
● So again, "La Fiera Domada" is right, if you ask me.


8) Are "escenario" and "escena" interchangeable here?
● No. "Escenario" is a stage. "Escena" is a scene.


9) This capitalization error needs a different explanation for me. It's not about titles here. If "The Shrew" is the name of the character, then why aren't both words capitalized? Or at least "Shrew"? Isn't it a proper name? ?????
● Well, they're telling you why it must be capitalized: That's the name of the character, a proper name. So "La Fiera".


10) As much as I'm learning from this book, their use of the word banks is driving me crazy. They give a specific word bank connected to a specific exercise, and then the answers in the back of the book use different words. So if I'm expected to use different words, then I wish they just wouldn't give a word bank. Ugh! So, question: are "protagonista" and "personaje principal" interchangeable? Which is more commonly used?
● "La protagonista" is correct.
"El personaje principal" is used when you're writing a formal paper on the story (not at all Lidia's case).


11) Why "ahí" and not "aquí"? The English is "here she comes now".
● "Aquí" is not exactly wrong. It could be used, but usually, in Spanish, one can't come "aquí", because that would mean she's already here, so why would she approach us more?
The usual expression is "ahí viene (alguien/algo)" to say that they're heading toward us.
.....· Ahí viene Juan. (Here comes Juan)
.....· Ahí viene la ola. (Here comes the wave)


12) Why not "ahora"? The English is "here she comes now".
● True, English says "now", but not every word is always translated.
If she's coming, it's present tense, so why bother with "ahora"?
"Ahora" is not exactly wrong either, but it's not necessary, so it makes the sentence "heavy".
[I will say something for which I might be stoned, since most people think this is an efficient way, but the worst way to learn a language, is translating. One translates when one has a good knowledge of both languages. When one gets used to work with the bilingual dictionary, one will never learn to think in the foreign language... but oh well. Sorry for venting. *sigh*]


13) When do you use "llevar" and when do you use "ponerse" for wearing certain kinds of attire?
● "Llevar" is used mostly for a fashion parade.
Seriously: When you're not wearing something but will put it on, or you're planning to wear something, you use "ponerse (ropa)"
When you talk in past tense or describing what someone is already wearing, you use "llevar/traer/tener (puesto)"
.....· ¿Viste la falda que llevaba María? (Did you see the skirt María was wearing?)
.....· Llevo puesto un clavel en la solapa para que me reconozcas. (I'm wearing a carnation on my lapel so you'll recognize me)
.....· La modelo lleva puesto un vestido blanco de algodón. (The model is wearing a white dress in cotton.)
.....· Me voy a poner un suéter porque tengo frío. (I'm putting a sweater on because I'm cold.)
.....· ¿Qué vestido te vas a poner para la boda? (Which dress will you wear at the wedding?)


14) This is another example of the fact that I know that translation does not work best word-for-word (see #1). But is my translation okay and theirs simply better? Or can you comment for me on the syntax used here?
● Your translation is not right: "when" and verbal tenses are not OK.
I cannot think of a case when "while" is translated by "cuando".
"Mientras" is the right word for it.
If you say: "sonreiré feliz cuando ella hable" (subjunctive here), you mean that you'll smile when she starts speaking, not while she speaks.
I'm unable now to explain why verbal tenses do not admit "sonreiré-hablará", sorry. I hope someone else can give you a good explanation on that.
The order of your sentence could actually be: "sonreiré feliz mientras (ella) habla" (and it would be a more common construction than the reverse order they used, btw.)


*phew!*

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

[I]
2) I don't get this, either. Why don't "un/a" and "poco/a" need to agree with "rara"?
● Adverbs, adverbs, adverbs!
Uyyy... I still don't get it.

12) Why not "ahora"? The English is "here she comes now".
● True, English says "now", but not every word is always translated.
If she's coming, it's present tense, so why bother with "ahora"?
"Ahora" is not exactly wrong either, but it's not necessary, so it makes the sentence "heavy".
[I will say something for which I might be stoned, since most people think this is an efficient way, but the worst way to learn a language, is translating. One translates when one has a good knowledge of both languages. When one gets used to work with the bilingual dictionary, one will never learn to think in the foreign language... but oh well. Sorry for venting. *sigh*] Gotcha..... And I'm really just doing this because I am benefiting from this book as a whole.....

*phew!*

At least you didn't end with a paper bag over your head again.

Just a couple of clarifications. I must have some brain block with agreement................ (sigh....)

THANKS for investing your time into my Spanish learning, Malila!!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

At least you didn't end with a paper bag over your head again.

Nah... I'll bravely face lapidation.

Anyway, if it's a method that's working for you, it will be ok.

As for adverbs, let me find a good explanation and exercises for them. They're hard even for native Spanish speakers.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Nah... I'll bravely face lapidation.

Anyway, if it's a method that's working for you, it will be ok.

As for adverbs, let me find a good explanation and exercises for them. They're hard even for native Spanish speakers.

You'll find many English speakers who have never heard the word "lapidation".

It's not necessarily that it's a method that works for me. It's just a part of a big picture that is working for me ... more in that I am finding it easy to "stick to it" with this particular workbook (as opposed to some of the other approaches I've been trying).

Anything you can point me out to about adverbs would be greatly appreciated. (How's THAT for syntax for you?)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

You'll also find many Spanish speakers who haven't heard "lapidación" either.

Sentences with a complicated syntax are more easily understood than made.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

You'll also find many Spanish speakers who haven't heard "lapidación" either.

Sentences with a complicated syntax are more easily understood than made.

If you want to play with English syntax, study Yoda's lines in all of the Star Wars movies. They aren't how anyone actually talks, but they are technically grammatically correct. “Named must your fear be before banish it you can.”

[bobjenkins]

Aquí es un poco que escribió Rusty para mí cuando pedí la misma pregunta

When those pesky adverbs aren´t adverbs at all , but rather adjectives

Originally Posted by Rusty

mucho (adv) or "un poco" as an adverb
lluvió mucho = it rained a lot
gritaron mucho los niños = the children yelled a lot


("un poco" as an adverb,
and when it´s an adverb it shouldn´t agree un gender and number with a noun because adverbs don´t have anything to do with nouns, but rather verbs )

Escribieron un poco los hombres - the men wrote a bit

Fue un poco rara la gatita con cinco piernas - The cat with 5 legs was a bit strange




mucho (adj) or "un poco" as an adj
mucha gente se ahogó por la mucha lluvia que cayó
= many people drowned because of the hard rain that fell
muchos de los niños gritaron
= many of the children yelled
Now "un poco" as an adjective, which should agree in number and gender with a noun.

Unas pocas de las personas les gustan ese programa - only a few of the people like that program.

Unas pocas gatas negras caminaron por las calles anoche - a few black cats walked through the streets last night...



Much

demasiado (adv)
llevaron demasiado al picnic = they took too much to the picnic

demasiado (adj)
había demasiada gente en el parque = there were too many people at the park

You´re having the same problem I was with poco. When to say "poco / poca / pocos / pocas"
Here are some examples I hope can help

If you´re still confused Ill try to explain it more

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Aquí es un poco que escribió Rusty para mí cuando pedí la misma pregunta

When those pesky adverbs aren´t adverbs at all , but rather adjectives

Sorry, but I don't see how any of that applies to "una pocao rara"....

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Sorry, but I don't see how any of that applies to "una pocao rara"....

You´re having the same problem I was with poco. When to say "poco / poca / pocos / pocas"
Here are some examples I hope can help


Aquí es un poco que escribió Rusty para mí cuando pedí la misma pregunta

When those pesky adverbs aren´t adverbs at all , but rather adjectives

Originally Posted by Rusty

mucho (adv) or "un poco" as an adverb
lluvió mucho = it rained a lot
gritaron mucho los niños = the children yelled a lot


"un poco" as an adverb, when it´s an adverb it doesn´t agree in gender and number with a noun because adverbs don´t have anything to do with nouns, but rather verbs )

Escribieron un poco los hombres - the men wrote a bit

Fue un poco rara la gatita con cinco piernas - The cat with 5 legs was a bit strange




mucho (adj) or "un poco" as an adj
mucha gente se ahogó por la mucha lluvia que cayó
= many people drowned because of the hard rain that fell
muchos de los niños gritaron
= many of the children yelled

Now "un poco" as an adjective, which should agree in number and gender with a noun.

Unas pocas de las personas les gustan ese programa - only a few of the people like that program.

Unas pocas gatas negras caminaron por las calles anoche - a few black cats walked through the streets last night...



Much

demasiado (adv)
llevaron demasiado al picnic = they took too much to the picnic

demasiado (adj)
había demasiada gente en el parque = there were too many people at the park

So as you back to your original question

Ella es un poco rara
She is a bit strange

When an "un poco" is an adverb, like in your original question, it relates to the verb, the verb being "is"

Ella es un poco rara
"She is a bit strange"
------
But when "un poco" acts as an adjective it relates to a noun, say the noun is "la gente"

Una poca de la gente se disfrutó.
A few of the people enjoyed themselves



If you´re still confused Ill try to explain it more

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Ella es un poco rara
She is a bit strange

When an "un poco" is an adverb, like in your original question, it relates to the verb, the verb being "is"

Ella es un poco rara
"She is a bit strange"

What I don't understand is how "un poco" modifies the verb and not the word "rara".

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

What I don't understand is how "un poco" modifies the verb and not the word "rara".

As you know, grammar is not my thing. All I can tell you is that you have to accustom your mind as you plow ahead. the answer most likely will come later.

That said, there written documents that will speak of "déme una poca de agua"

I have never expressed myself like that but I can understand what I am being told.

I say "déme un poco de agua"

I suppose there is a very good explanation for it...

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

As you know, grammar is not my thing. All I can tell you is that you have to accustom your mind as you plow ahead. the answer most likely will come later.

That said, there written documents that will speak of "déme una poca de agua"

I have never expressed myself like that but I can understand what I am being told.

I say "déme un poco de agua"

I suppose there is a very good explanation for it...

But "agua" is a noun, and "rara" is an adjective. THAT much I get.... I don't know why you would use "un poco" witih "agua", which is feminine...???

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

What I don't understand is how "un poco" modifies the verb and not the word "rara".

It´s the same in english so if you get it in english it´ll come easy in spanish , so think of it like this. (all the easy examples I can think of are with "a lot" so i´m going to use "a lot" instead of "a bit")

ADJ.
A lot of rain - "a lot" is an adjective here
You can switch out "a lot" for any other adjective
green rain
hot rain
acid rain

"a lot" as an adjective describes the amount of rain, which is the noun (remember adj´s describe nouns)


ADVERB
Rained alot - "a lot" is an adverb
Now when "a lot" is an adverb it adds information to the verb , in this case how much it rained. (rain being the verb in this case
Rained a little

---
See if you can spot whether it´s a adj or a adverb in these examples

The cat is a bit strange (does "a bit" describe the number of cats [a few cats] or add to the verb is? [Is a little strange])

The strange men yelled a bit (does "a bit" describe the number of men or add to the verb yell?)

There was a bit of mustard on my shirt (does "a bit" describe the amount of mustard or add to the verb is?)

A lot of cats ran from the dogs (does "a lot" describe the number of cats or add to the verb ran?)

The dogs chased the cats a lot (does "a lot" describe the number of cats or add to the verb chased?)


Sorry to make it sound like a first graders homework but now you can see it´s the same in spanish

llovió un poco - adverb
Una poca de la lluvia cayó - adj

Ella es un poco rara - adverb
Las mujeres raras corrieron un poco - adverb

Hope it helps

[chileno]

[QUOTE=laepelba;76361]But "agua" is a noun, and "rara" is an adjective. THAT much I get.... I don't know why you would use "un poco" witih "agua", which is feminine...???[/QUOTE]

Remember we say "el agua" and not "la agua"?

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

It´s the same in english so if you get it in english it´ll come easy in spanish , so think of it like this. (all the easy examples I can think of are with "a lot" so i´m going to use "a lot" instead of "a bit")

ADJ.
A lot of rain - "a lot" is an adjective here
You can switch out "a lot" for any other adjective
green rain
hot rain
acid rain

"a lot" as an adjective describes the amount of rain, which is the noun (remember adj´s describe nouns)


ADVERB
Rained alot - "a lot" is an adverb
Now when "a lot" is an adverb it adds information to the verb , in this case how much it rained. (rain being the verb in this case
Rained a little

---
See if you can spot whether it´s a adj or a adverb in these examples

The cat is a bit strange (does "a bit" describe the number of cats [a few cats] or add to the verb is? [Is a little strange])

The strange men yelled a bit (does "a bit" describe the number of men or add to the verb yell?)

There was a bit of mustard on my shirt (does "a bit" describe the amount of mustard or add to the verb is?)

A lot of cats ran from the dogs (does "a lot" describe the number of cats or add to the verb ran?)

The dogs chased the cats a lot (does "a lot" describe the number of cats or add to the verb chased?)


Sorry to make it sound like a first graders homework but now you can see it´s the same in spanish

llovió un poco - adverb
Una poca de la lluvia cayó - adj

Ella es un poco rara - adverb
Las mujeres raras corrieron un poco - adverb

Hope it helps

It's actually not at all the same in English. I can identify adverbs and adjectives. But I never have to worry about gender/number agreement. That's my issue. Why don't I have to make adverbs agree? Never? Or only some of the time? That's what I'm having trouble with.

Originally Posted by chileno

Remember we say "el agua" and not "la agua"?

But you use "el" with agua only because of the vowel-next-to-vowel avoidance. Intrinsically, I know that in the plural it's "las aguas". Are there native Spanish speakers who erroneously use other masculine modifiers with "agua" besides "el"?