Gay Marriage

[Jessica]

I hope this kind of discussion is allowed...

anyways, are you for or against gay marriage?

Personally I think there is NO good argument against it. It's not harming anyone and I see no problem with it. I am totally for it.

If two people love each other, why does gender have to matter?

[Chris]

Marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman. I think it should stay that way. There is nothing sacred about a man and a man or a woman and a woman getting married. The only reason they want it is because they were told the can't have it and insurance.

Honestly I don't know why most people get married. They have low morals so it's not like it's for the "sacred union" part. They rush into it also. Don't get to know the person. Two years later they realize they really didn't want this guy/girl and divorce. Now they are divorced looking for Mr. Right. They just like the idea of marriage.

[CrOtALiTo]

Jessica.

This thread should be allowed here in the forums and over the society.
I haven't anything against the gay marriage.

As you have said if the people have love between themselves then no ones have the power for destroy the relationship.

[Jessica]

Originally Posted by Chris

Marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman. I think it should stay that way. There is nothing sacred about a man and a man or a woman and a woman getting married. The only reason they want it is because they were told the can't have it and insurance.

Honestly I don't know why most people get married. They have low morals so it's not like it's for the "sacred union" part. They rush into it also. Don't get to know the person. Two years later they realize they really didn't want this guy/girl and divorce. Now they are divorced looking for Mr. Right. They just like the idea of marriage.

still, there's nothing wrong with a man getting with a man and a woman getting with a woman. they aren't harming anyone. Why should gender matter? and also, gay marriages end up in less divorces...

[ookami]

Chris, I can't see something sacred in a marriage between a woman and a man, would you lecture me in this matter?

[JPablo]

Ookami, I don't think it is a matter of "lecturing". I believe it is just a matter of "definitions", pure and simply.
Random House gives 10 definitions for "marriage", looks like #1 has to do with something "sacred" as it is performed as a "religious ceremony". And also sacred 3. pertaining to or connected with religion

1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.

That there are a "civil" marriages, and there are gay marriages is a fact that it is being debated (I believe for political and manipulating reasons). I respect whoever considers it sacred, and most likely has a higher ethics level than the average society.

Opinions on the matter, like the Italians say, "de tutti i colori!"

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

This topic is very controversial and personal opinions and convictions on it are usually inflexible and tend to be expressed too categorically. Please allow me to recommend holding this conversation in a friendly tone and showing tolerance to other people's views in order to keep this thread open.

[ookami]

Yes JPablo, I understand that. I wanted to know which is the view of the(es obligatorio este the?) religion about a "sacred marriage". How can I differenciate between a sacred marriage and a profane one when both marriages tell me they are sacred?
That is what I wanted to know from Chris Especially because he has a very curious argument, "they do it because they know they can't do it", but they can do it since long time ago to realize if it's true or no, and in antique Greece it was allowed and was quite popular, more than anything between intelligent people.
But quoting a good story I'd read: this is all non-sense! I recommend it to all of you, "The Breakout" by Joyce Cary
It's quite short.

*Since two months ago Argentina is the first country in Latin American with allowed gay marriage. (allowed???)
*Angélica,

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¿no es suficiente hablar sin decir las cosas groseramente? ¿por qué tendría que fingir un tono amistoso que no poseo -al menos en este momento? yo hablo directa y crudamente (o sinceramente si se lo quiere así) pero porque creo que a largo plazo es mejor para la otra persona, en cambio una excesiva deferencia seguramente sea más agradable, pero no genera nada fructífero en el projimo (a largo plazo). La idea de estos temas es que de las divergencias fluya el debatir, discutir no es malo mientras no se haga con una intención negativa o se intente convenser al otro. En verdad, lo horriblemente malo sería que todos estemos de acuerdo y nos brindemos mutuas palmadas en las espaldas (ya desagradablemente bañadas en sudor debido a tantos choques fraternales de piel)

[JPablo]

Understood, Ookami. (The "the" I believe it's optional, ie, "the view of religion" or "the view of the religion" may be both fine, probably, without "the".)

I am not totally sure about all the different kinds of "marriage" I remember, studying Spanish Middle Age literature, where there were 4 or 5 types of "marriage" which had to do with the "social stratum" of each couple... In googling "tipos de matrimonios" there are more than 31,000 hits... so it seems to be quite a subject.

(La mayoría empiezan con una serpiente... una boa.)

¿Sabe'h lo que e'h una boa?
Un casamiento andalú.
Y un 'casamiento' e' una cosa mu' sagrá'.

[CrOtALiTo]

Yes Angelica.

It will be interesting if a person in the situation that is expressed here in the post he could opine about the thread.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by ookami

Yes JPablo, I understand that. I wanted to know which is the view of the (es obligatorio este the?) religion about a "sacred marriage". .

.but they can do it since long time ago to realize if it's true or no, and in antique Greece it was allowed and was quite popular, more than anything between intelligent people.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here, but whatever it is, (homo)sexuality in Ancient Greece has nothing to do with present-day homosexuality, and they most certainly never had gay marriages. It is always misunderstood, but I think that particular topic is outside the scope of this forum.

[irmamar]

I see marriage as a contract. You can be a religious person and sign this contract following religious rules. But there are civil marriages with the same validity in law.

Five years have passed here since homosexual marriages were approved here and a lot of people have married. I think if people in society demand something, laws must be adapted to the demand. That's my point of view.

Another question is the term adopted, since in Spanish "matrimonio" comes from "matrem", madre (mother) and "monium", calidad de. So, I'm not sure if the term is correct, although I'm not able to think of a term appropriate.

[Kalmetam]

As I see it, marriage is a religious matter.. not to be decided by the government.. but rather by the religion you wish to be married under..

Even if the government allows you to achieve gay marriage and you're let's say.. Catholic. God will not recognize it anyways because a marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman.

You don't need to be married to be a couple... Marriage is a ceremony to be shared by heterosexual couples who wish to undertake it... I don't know why gay people feel the need to be married if it won't even be recognized by their religion.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Kalmetam

. I don't know why gay people feel the need to be married if it won't even be recognized by their religion.

Sometimes there are practical reasons. There are laws which relate to married couples which do not apply for people living together. For example, pensions paid to on partner when the other dies, or residence permits in a country. Sometimes a gay couple marry just to enable them to enjoy the same benefits.

[Kalmetam]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Sometimes there are practical reasons. There are laws which relate to married couples which do not apply for people living together. For example, pensions paid to on partner when the other dies, or residence permits in a country. Sometimes a gay couple marry just to enable them to enjoy the same benefits.

Maybe there should be a special relationship status for gay couples so that they do get those benefits (wow that's a great idea).. however.. I don't think marriage is the solution.. because doesn't that defeat the purpose of marriage itself?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Kalmetam

Maybe there should be a special relationship status for gay couples so that they do get those benefits (wow that's a great idea).. however.. I don't think marriage is the solution.. because doesn't that defeat the purpose of marriage itself?

Perhaps, but laws change slowly and never keep up with changes in society. There are impossible questions. For example, the standard model is a husband who works for 40 years, gets a pension, dies. The widow has a right to a widow's pension. Suppose it was a gay man, living with a male partner. Does the partner have the right to a pension? If they have lived together for 40 years, then yes. But if only 2 years? How do you prove it? At present, a marriage certificate is the only way of proving this. All very difficult questions.

[Elaina]

"The standard model of a husband......"

I don't think there is a standard model of a husband or a wife! Not anymore. Maybe a few years back. What you are describing is a situation, many years ago, where society was faced with having to deal with many "displaced homemakers"....women that had lived their lives as homemakers/moms/wives/caretakers, etc. All of a sudden they found themselves widowed, and too young to collect any type of pension either from the company the husband worked for or social security. They were lost!

Nowadays, I think you will find that that is not the norm anymore. You will find a lot of "house-husbands" that are very happy with their role in the marriage. Moms that work outside the home. Women are no longer just staying home waiting for the husband to come home with a paycheck.

It is true what they say.........Religion and politics are too controversial for discussion in a forum especially because people are so passionate about their beliefs.

My

[Kalmetam]

Originally Posted by Elaina

"The standard model of a husband......"

I don't think there is a standard model of a husband or a wife! Not anymore. Maybe a few years back. What you are describing is a situation, many years ago, where society was faced with having to deal with many "displaced homemakers"....women that had lived their lives as homemakers/moms/wives/caretakers, etc. All of a sudden they found themselves widowed, and too young to collect any type of pension either from the company the husband worked for or social security. They were lost!

Nowadays, I think you will find that that is not the norm anymore. You will find a lot of "house-husbands" that are very happy with their role in the marriage. Moms that work outside the home. Women are no longer just staying home waiting for the husband to come home with a paycheck.

It is true what they say.........Religion and politics are too controversial for
discussion in a forum especially because people are so passionate about their beliefs.

My

I know, this generation is very different!
You'll find many families with either as a working parent
In my family though, both of my parents worked...
And I have to say.. I prefer relationships in which both people work
Who says you can't raise a kid while two parents are working?
I came out great.. a generally happy kid with great grades (yes I'm still in school)

[Elaina]

Oh I think it is wonderful that both parents work although there will be "those people" who think children must be with a parent at all times. I believe children learn values, independence and ethics and the value of money when both parents work. Children are like sponges and they absorb everything that the parents do and say and act.

I agree with you! You came out great.. a generally happy kid with great grades.....

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Elaina

"The standard model of a husband......"

I was referring to the model used, say 50 years ago, on which laws are still based. Problems arise because this standard model no longer exists, as you say.