You will miss me when I am gone

[BobRitter]

Spanish Word of the Day from Transparent Language:
echar de menos - to miss

Echo de menos tener un jardín.
English: I miss having a garden.

I get it so I went to Google Translate to try a few more and got involved with the verb extranar ( needs a tilde ) also and got a bit confused.

You will miss me when I'm gone.
They will miss me when I am gone.

He will miss me when I am gone.
She will miss me when I am gone.


Que me van a extrañar cuando me haya ido.
Ellos me van a extrañar cuando me haya ido.
Él me echarás de menos cuando me haya ido.
Ella me echarás de menos cuando me haya ido.

The He and She seem to be good based on the Word of the Day.
The You and They use extranar (to miss someone) which I understand but is the "van a" correct? Seems like it should be "va a".

I love this forum. Thanks to all of you. Bob Ritter

[aleCcowaN]

You will miss me when I'm gone.

(Tú) Me vas a extrañar cuando me haya ido
(Usted) Me va a extrañar cuando me haya ido
(Vosotros/Vosotras) Me vais a extrañar cuando me haya ido
(Ustedes) Me van a extrañar cuando me haya ido

They will miss me when I am gone.

(Ellos/Ellas) Me van a extrañar cuando me haya ido.

He will miss me when I am gone.
She will miss me when I am gone.

(Él/Ella) Me echará de menos cuando me haya ido

Me va a extrañar ...
Me extrañará ...
Me va a echar de menos ...
Me echará de menos ...

... cuando me haya ido [marchado]
... cuando me haya ido [muerto]
... cuando ya no esté [marchado]
... cuando ya no esté [muerto]
... cuando ya no esté aquí [marchado]
... cuando ya no esté más [muerto]

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

He will miss me when I am gone.
She will miss me when I am gone.

(Él/Ella) Me echará de menos cuando me haya ido

Is this a case where one could actually use a future perfect subjective which I was asking about recently?

Me echará de menos cuando me hubiere ido

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Me echará de menos cuando me hubiere ido

It sounds extremely dated. Future subjunctive works well when it is a matter of "if" or it is within a clause used to identify or characterize something. The only function in "cuando me hubiere ido" is to say "when" and future perfect subjunctive is overkilling nowadays. Besides, that example has sort of a contradiction built in it: it sounds like "mucho después de que me hubiere ido" where future subjunctive is still unnecessary.

It's difficult to explain but by "me haya ido" a present and a subjunctive make a precise yet undetermined moment in the future. By using "me hubiere ido" a future and a subjunctive make a concluded (perfective aspect) precise yet undetermined moment after another undetermined moment in the future (oh, my!). I think both uses couldn't coexist longer and future subjunctive had to hide in specialized uses of the language. Actual speakers have lost the ability to parse it the "right" way, that way of the 'good ole times'.

But I have to admit that this part of a poem by Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz (1651-1695) would be lost with the modern render of tenses:

"Goza, sin temor del Hado,
el curso breve de tu edad lozana,
pues no podrá la muerte de mañana
quitarte lo que hubieres hoy gozado"

where that future perfect subjunctive deserves many paragraphs to sort it out and in the end conveys the additional notion of "from now on" that is impossible to render with other tense and without adding another verse. It's almost magical.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

It's difficult to explain but by "me haya ido" a present and a subjunctive make a precise yet undetermined moment in the future.

Yes, many thanks - I get the idea. The above is by the way a (present) perfect subjunctive, not a present subjunctive, but the perfect tense is technically a present tense anyway. Not many people know that.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Yes, many thanks - I get the idea. The above is by the way a (present) perfect subjunctive, not a present subjunctive, but the perfect tense is technically a present tense anyway. Not many people know that.

I'm sorry. I meant (present + subjunctive) for the verbo auxiliar. Do you think I can ignore what a present perfect subjunctive is in Spanish? Me extraña araña que siendo mosca no me conozca. Spanish is an articulated language so, unlike English, it is noticeable the part that articulates in a perífrasis verbal. So among "ha ido", "hube ido", "hubiéramos ido", "hayas ido", "habríais ido", "habían ido" and "hubieren ido" not surprisingly is not the "ido" part which gathers our attention other than for semantical reasons.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by BobRitter

Spanish Word of the Day from Transparent Language:
echar de menos - to miss

Echo de menos tener un jardín.
English: I miss having a garden.

I get it so I went to Google Translate to try a few more and got involved with the verb extranar ( needs a tilde ) also and got a bit confused.

You will miss me when I'm gone.
They will miss me when I am gone.

He will miss me when I am gone.
She will miss me when I am gone.

Que*me van a extrañar cuando me haya ido.
Ellos me van a extrañar cuando me haya ido.
Él me echará de menos cuando me haya ido.
Ella me echará de menos cuando me haya ido.

The He and She seem to be good based on the Word of the Day.
The You and They use extranar (to miss someone) which I understand but is the "van a" correct? Yes, it is if "you" refers to "you all". Seems like it should be "va a". Only if "you" refers to a single person.

I love this forum. Thanks to all of you. Bob Ritter

*What do you mean by "que"?

The answer is very simple.. "echar de menos" and "extrañar" are synonymous and totally interchangeable in this context.

Of course, "extrañar is also used in other contexts

The verb conjugation has to agree in with the subject:
Tú me echarás de menos/ extrañarás
Ella me echará de menos/ extrañará
Ellos me van a echar de menos/ van a extrañar

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

Spanish is an articulated language so, unlike English,....

I don't understand your use of 'articulated' here. In context, how does Spanish differ from English?

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

The answer is very simple.. "echar de menos" and "extrañar" are synonymous and totally interchangeable in this context.

Is one more likely to be used in Spain than the other? I've never heard extrañar being used ever, not that that means much.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I don't understand your use of 'articulated' here. In context, how does Spanish differ from English?

gusto-gustas- gusta- gustamos-gustáis -gustas
niño bueno - niña buena - niños buenos - niñas buenas

English could look that way to a Chinese speaker, but for a Spanish speaker English looks like Chinese. I used to omit the extra -s in third person constantly because English doesn't sound articulated to me and a modal auxiliary verb "destroys" that articulation. Today I remember that -s about 40-60% of times (80-90% when I check the text) because I started to deal with it as if it is an aspect, the "present-third-personesque" aspect that is overridden by modals. Thus "hemos" or "voy a" or "estoy a punto de" are the core part as infinitives and participles are almost pure semantics. Not the same about Spanish gerundio, seat of a "progressive aspect" and source of some brain strain when a student says "pero tratando con él no es un problema"

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I don't understand your use of 'articulated' here. In context, how does Spanish differ from English?

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

gusto-gustas- gusta- gustamos-gustáis -gustas
niño bueno - niña buena - niños buenos - niñas buenas

Ah - I would call that inflection (or inflexion). I'm not trying to be picky here, but is articulation used as a technical word for inflexion, or for the specific type of inflexion which you give? (Articulate in English does not have the linguistic meaning you give it, as far as I know)

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Ah - I would call that inflection (or inflexion). I'm not trying to be picky here, but is articulation used as a technical word for inflexion, or for the specific type of inflexion which you give? (Articulate in English does not have the linguistic meaning you give it, as far as I know)

Oh! My bad

I translated flexivo in the wrong way!

[poli]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

Oh! My bad (Oh, I'm bad!)

I translated flexivo in the wrong way!

------------------

[wrholt]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

Oh! My bad

I translated flexivo in the wrong way!

Poli corrected "My bad", to "I'm bad", but I disagree. "My bad" is newish slang in some places with the meaning "my mistake" or "my fault".

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Is one more likely to be used in Spain than the other? I've never heard extrañar being used ever, not that that means much.

I couldn't tell you that. Frankly, whatever word pops into my head first, I use. I haven't noticed if one word is more used than the other, they're both used.

Maybe "extrañar" is a little more... poetic and romantic .

Te extraño
como se extrañan las noches sin estrellas,
como se extrañan las mañanas bellas,
no estar contigo, por Dios, que me hace daño.

Te extraño
cuando camino, cuando lloro, cuando río,
cuando el sol brilla, cuando hace mucho frío
porque te siento como algo muy mío.

Te extraño
como los árboles extrañan el otoño,
en esas noches que no concilio el sueño;
no te imaginas, amor, cómo te extraño.

Te extraño
en cada paso que siento solitario,
cada momento que voy viviendo a diario,
estoy muriendo, amor, porque te extraño.

Te extraño
cuando la aurora comienza a dar colores
con todas tus virtudes con todos tus errores,
por lo que quieras, no sé, pero te extraño.

-Beautiful 'bolero' by Armando Manzanero, Mexican composer.


If this song said instead "te echo de menos", it wouldn't sound so romantic and beautiful. In my opinion, of course.

Nuances are so important when learning a language..

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by poli

------------------

Oh, my bad! <--- include this emoticon

Thank you, I appreciate you won't let me slip in grammar-sores.

Also, thank you Bill. I have associated that "my bad" with our local "nene malo, malo, malo" pronounced with a 3-year tongue (something between "malo" and "maru") and totally right as an "uso expresivo".

Also similar to "sí, mi quepo", from the children's joke:

Cabo- "Soldado, métase ahí"
Soldado- "No cabo, mi cabo"
Cabo- "¡Estúpido! ¡Se dice quepo!"
Soldado- "¡No cabo, mi quepo!"

summarizing, a way to say in a wrong way that one was wrong.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

Oh! My bad

I translated flexivo in the wrong way!

I'm glad that's cleared up - I was getting worried.

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

I couldn't tell you that.

Thanks for that, I have found it:

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Thanks for that, I have found it:

Great! I enjoyed that. There are a couple of words there that are different from the ones I gave you before.. . Of course I'd believe the composer more..

Manzanero doesn't have the most beautiful voice in the world but he's one of the greatest 'bolero' composers in the Spanish world.

[BobRitter]

WOW!! If I understood half of these responses I'd be pretty smart.
I do enjoy trying to understand this stuff so please keep it coming.

Thanks, Bob Ritter, Pensacola, FL., USA