If nothing if not

[JPablo]

if nothing if not ‘varied’ with some more examples below!

I took an example from the web...
But would this be something like "si no es otra cosa que ‘variado’..."
"aunque no sea otra cosa que..."

Cambridge Klett bilingual gives,
she is nothing if not patient = es paciente por encima de todo

And Oxford bilingual gives
nothing if not: he’s nothing if not reliable = es totalmente de fiar;
they treated us nothing if not fairly = nos trataron con total justicia;

Is this usage of "if nothing if not" an actual idiom?
Or is just the "nothing if not" with an "if" at the beginning?

Does it work as a double negative?

Any ideas on how to translate and/or better convey its concept in Spanish?

[poli]

Originally Posted by JPablo

if nothing if not ‘varied’ with some more examples below!

I took an example from the web...
But would this be something like "si no es otra cosa que ‘variado’..."
"aunque no sea otra cosa que..."

Cambridge Klett bilingual gives,
she is nothing if not patient = es paciente por encima de todo

And Oxford bilingual gives
nothing if not: he’s nothing if not reliable = es totalmente de fiar;
they treated us nothing if not fairly = nos trataron con total justicia;

Is this usage of "if nothing if not" an actual idiom?
Or is just the "nothing if not" with an "if" at the beginning?

Does it work as a double negative?

Any ideas on how to translate and/or better convey its concept in Spanish?

It's a double negative which is used to convey the positive. It's OK to use a double negative in English if the meaning conveyed is positive.

I was trying to word it into Spanish, and after thinking about it, I don't think it translates well. Here's my try. Si no la ves como una persona paciente, ¿quien es?

This may levantar ampollas among my fellow native English speakers, but I think there is a grammatically-correct double negative in English to convey a negative. It is used with the word anymore which is an inherantly negative word that must accompany a negative, hence making it a legitamate double negative. Example: I don't go to the beach anymore.
(In English you would never say I go the the beach anymore

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

It's a double negative which is used to convey the positive. ....This may levantar ampollas among my fellow native English speakers, but I think there is a grammatically-correct double negative in English to convey a negative. It is used with the word anymore which is an inherantly negative word that must accompany a negative, hence making it a legitamate double negative. Example: I don't go to the beach anymore.

Would you like any more tea? Trueman is on record as saying "It sometimes seems to me that all I do anymore is to go to funerals".

(Edit: This is from a dictionary of USA regional variations. There is an implied negative, in that he does nothing except...)

Oddly, according to my OED, the word anymore does not exist, but any more does. We have (or had) anybody, anyhow, anything, anyway, anywhen, anywhere, anywhither, anywise.

Anyway, the fact that anymore is used in negative statements does not anyhow make it a negative per se. The example above is really not a double negative at all.

Getting back to nothing if not, I think there is some variation in interpretation. (If nothing if not is incorrect by the way). "he is nothing if not honest" could mean "he is most definitely honest, this is his most obvious attribute" or possibly it could mean "I can't say anything positive about him, except that he is honest" i.e that is his only positive quality.

Does anybody disagree? You may say anything anyhow anywhen, but not anywhere.

[poli]

It's arguable Perikles anymore is inherantly negative. You can substitute lately for it, but that word is more neutral (though slightly more positive). Example: I've been going to the beach lately/ I haven't been going to the beach lately. The second example, although good, sounds awkward, because anymore is dying to replace the lately used there. Anyhow, in my opinion, which I admit is causes volatile reactions, anymore exists and it is the bona fide double negative in English. Those who insist that the double negative doesn't exist will deny the obvious by saying anymore is not a word. Sadly, life has shown me that people deny lots of things. I'm not the only one who knows this. There's even a long river in Africa named for it.


As for Truman (not Trueman), his use of anymore is typical of the southern midwest of the United States. It sounds wierd coming from anyone else. I know this because I hear it from a friend from Springfield, Illinois, a town not far from Truman''s state Missouri.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

Anyhow, in my opinion, which I admit is causes volatile reactions, anymore exists and it is the bona fide double negative in English. Those who insist that the double negative doesn't exist will deny the obvious by saying anymore is not a word. .

I'm not denying it exists, in fact I know it does, and arguably has a different function than any more does. For example: "the boy had eaten two apples, and refused to eat any more." and "but Britain is not that sort of country anymore". British authors tend to use two words, not one, but as ever there is no uniformity.

Other words like anyone, anything, anywhere are not negatives. Examples of anymore always involve a negative, but I can't see why it is in itself a negative. In the latter example above, anymore means any longer. You are of course entitled to argue that anymore is a negative therefore double negatives exist in English, but I can't offhand think of any more.

[poli]

It's a bit of a phenmenon. Yet is its freakish sibling. Yet doesn't have to be a double negative (as in: I have yet to see a more beautiful day)

[JPablo]

Well... the discussion is nothing if interesting and entertaining, any more than anything else.

(@Perikles, why is "if nothing if not" incorrect??
I take that appearing in Google a bunch of times is not a yardstick to measure anything, but would this example below be "wrong"?
...this here Google Reader user if nothing if not eternally grateful.)

At any rate, thank you for your insights...

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by JPablo

(@Perikles, why is "if nothing if not" incorrect??
..

It makes no grammatical sense with the first 'if'. I have just checked with the BNC. There is no incidence of "if nothing if not" but 58 hits on "nothing if not", and all the cases are preceeded by the verb 'to be'. For example:

he is nothing if not consistent.

How could you have another 'if'? he is if nothing if not consistent

[poli]

If he isn't consistant, he is nothing at all.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

If he isn't consistant, he is nothing at all.

Still only one 'if'.

[poli]

Now I know what you mean. That first if looks like a typo to me.
I know from whence I speak.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

Now I know what you mean. That first if looks like a typo to me.
I know from whence I speak.

You can of course be forgiven, because the s used to be written like an f. The mathematical sign for an integral is in fact an elongated 's' for 'summation'.

[JPablo]

I get it.
(Although my calculus is no solid concretion in my memory... and I hope not to develop any in my gallbladder...)

What it seems to me is that some users of the language (some isolated 41 Google hits) may have an intention to say something like "if [be] nothing if ungrammatical"

Would these examples from the Web be correct if we include the [be] I am mentioning? (Or would it still be quite "strained by the hairs" [tirado de los pelos], i.e., far fetched)?

But I am nothing if [be] nothing if not persistent.
And it if [be] nothing if not glamorous.
...and Zuckerberg is if [be] nothing if not controversial, thanks to an unflattering portrayal of his character...

My far fetched example,
If be nothing if not controversial
or
If not be nothing if not controversial...
Dat is the question.

(Not trying to flog a dead horse here, just trying to rationalize how come some English speakers would make the mistake... besides plain carelessness...)

[Perikles]

I don't have the pleasure of understanding you. I can't help it if there are several Google hits on something meaningless. Most of the stuff out there is gobbledegook. "If nothing if not" is nonsense, unless you can come up with an example of this sequence of words in a grammatically correct sentence.

[JPablo]

Mmmmh...

I thought you were if nothing if understanding and tolerant of feeble-minded attempts to understand...

I thought you were nothing if understanding and tolerant of feeble-minded attempts to understand...

But I guess my integral calculus "play" on words was not too healthy either...

Anyhow, that's fine, I guess all's well that ends well, or at least I can see the above, with no much additional ado.