Dulce

[laepelba]

Does the word "dulce" (as an adjective) only apply to food, or can a person be "dulce"? In English, I could say "She is a sweet person." Or "You are a sweet friend." But is it possible to say "Ella es una persona dulce" o "Eres una amiga dulce"??

[poli]

sí, yes, oui

[laepelba]

Gracias, mi amigo dulce.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Gracias, mi amigo dulce.

Then you have to leave the adjective in front of the noun, like in English.

Mi dulce amiga.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

Then you have to leave the adjective in front of the noun, like in English.

Mi dulce amiga.

UGH!!!! WHY!!!!!!!????????? I NEVER understand when to put the adjective IN FRONT vs. AFTER the noun. WHY!!!!???

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

UGH!!!! WHY!!!!!!!????????? I NEVER understand when to put the adjective IN FRONT vs. AFTER the noun. WHY!!!!???

You know I do not know grammar, so with that in mind, let's see:

It is often that in Spanish you hear that is not the same to say: el pobre hombre que el hombre pobre.

The first one means the sad man and the second means poor man.

With amigo dulce vs dulce amigo

the first means sweet tasting friend and the second sweet friend.

Makes sense?

Besides, sometimes, poetically speaking, you can place the adjectives in front of the noun.

Besides, you are trying to get this logically and this will get time. When you transcribe stuff like this your mind starts to see the light. :-)

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

You I do not know grammar, so with that in mind, let's see:

It is often that in Spanish you hear that is not the same to say: el pobre hombre que el hombre pobre.

The first one means the sad man and the second means poor man.

With amigo dulce vs dulce amigo

the first means sweet tasting friend and the second sweet friend.

Makes sense?

Besides, sometimes, poetically speaking, you can place the adjectives in front of the noun.

Besides, you are trying to get this logically and this will get time. When you transcribe stuff like this your mind starts to see the light. :-)

Thanks. You know me - I want a "rule" for everything.....

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

UGH!!!! WHY!!!!!!!????????? I NEVER understand when to put the adjective IN FRONT vs. AFTER the noun. WHY!!!!???

Do I detect a faint note of frustration here, mi dulce amiga?

My grammar book says

Adjective position in Spanish generally depends on the relationship between the noun and the adjective. It is very extensively manipulated for stylistic effect, and so adjective placement is rarely 'right' or 'wrong'

Which is no help at all.

Then it says:

Adjectives placed after the noun

a) denote a distinctive attribute of the noun (nationality, shape purpose.....)
b) denote a sub-group

Adjectives placed before the noun

a) denote a non-distinctive or well-known property
b) denote irony

e.g.
los blancos cisnes (swans are known to be white)
los cisnes blancos (white swans as a sub-group, not black)

I have a list here of common adjectives which have important and different meanings according to placement:

antiguo / cierto / diferentes / distintos / grande / medio / nuevo / pobre / proprio / puro / simple / único / varios

Would you like me to list them?

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Which is no help at all.

Then it says:

Adjectives placed after the noun

a) denote a distinctive attribute of the noun (nationality, shape purpose.....)
b) denote a sub-group

Adjectives placed before the noun

a) denote a non-distinctive or well-known property
b) denote irony

e.g.
los blancos cisnes (swans are known to be white)
los cisnes blancos (white swans as a sub-group, not black)

I have a list here of common adjectives which have important and different meanings according to placement:

antiguo / cierto / diferentes / distintos / grande / medio / nuevo / pobre / proprio / puro / simple / único / varios

Would you like me to list them?

Yes, your grammar book is no help at all. But YOU are being VERY helpful here.

So, yes, um, I would definitely like you to list them. BUT ... maybe it should be in a new thread in the grammar forum? What do you think?

(I keep thinking that I have an easily answered question and then there are a zillion replies.)

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Do I detect a faint note of frustration here, mi dulce amiga?

My grammar book says

Which is no help at all.

Yeah, Spanish has that German precision....

And of course it has the RAE, and then we go onto discussing prescription vs description.

Thanks for the explanation, every bit helps.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

Yeah, Spanish has that German precision....

And of course it has the RAE, and then we go onto discussing prescription vs description.

Thanks for the explanation, every bit helps.

I know we have seen this before (recently), but can you remind me the difference between prescriptive grammar and descriptive grammar? (Irmamar?)

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I know we have seen this before (recently), but can you remind me the difference between prescriptive grammar and descriptive grammar? (Irmamar?)

This is an endless argument. pjt knows much more about this, but basically, if you prescribe a grammar you are telling people what their grammar should be. You are the grammar police. If you describe a grammar, you are providing a grammar of what people actually say, without any aim of telling them whether it is wrong or not.

Teaching grammar is a balance between the two. I think.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by Perikles

This is an endless argument. pjt knows much more about this, but basically, if you prescribe a grammar you are telling people what their grammar should be. You are the grammar police. If you describe a grammar, you are providing a grammar of what people actually say, without any aim of telling them whether it is wrong or not.

Teaching grammar is a balance between the two. I think.

Soy enfermo, medicíname una toma de gramática por favor doctor

Me gusta cuando la gente me dan reglas, luego ya, tengo un fundamento para construir en

[chileno]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Soy enfermo, medicíname una toma de gramática por favor doctor

Me gusta cuando la gente me dan reglas, luego ya, tengo un fundamento para construir en

Yes, because you are American and usually Americans say "Rules were meant to be broken"

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by chileno

Yes, because you are American and usually Americans say "Rules were meant to be broken"

Las reglas debería acatarse

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pero solo un poco del tiempo

[chileno]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Las reglas deberían acatarse

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pero solo un poco del tiempo

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

This is an endless argument. pjt knows much more about this, but basically, if you prescribe a grammar you are telling people what their grammar should be. You are the grammar police. If you describe a grammar, you are providing a grammar of what people actually say, without any aim of telling them whether it is wrong or not.

Teaching grammar is a balance between the two. I think.

I'm not a language teacher, but I would say that it makes sense to teach a combination of both. Thank you for explaining the difference.

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Me gusta cuando la gente me dan reglas, luego ya, tengo un fundamento para construir en

Yo también!!

Originally Posted by chileno

Yes, because you are American and usually Americans say "Rules were meant to be broken"

Not ALL Americans like breaking rules.............

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Las reglas debería acatarse

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pero solo un poco del tiempo

Nice, Bob ... nice.......

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Does the word "dulce" (as an adjective) only apply to food, or can a person be "dulce"? In English, I could say "She is a sweet person." Or "You are a sweet friend." But is it possible to say "Ella es una persona dulce" o "Eres una amiga dulce"??

I believe that in English when you need to say Sweet to someone, you need to use the word nice.

Really sweet will be used for the food.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Not ALL Americans like breaking rules.............

That's why I said "usually" or maybe I should have said "generally" or perhaps "some" ...

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

I believe that in English when you need to say Sweet to someone, you need to use the word nice.

Really sweet will be used for the food.

Not only, but also You would say 'what a sweet little girl' = cute / mona / guapísima.