Don Quijote

[rpgray]

Hi,

I hope this is the right place to post this. Is anyone here reading Don Quijote in the original Spanish? Or have you read Don Quijote in the Original Spanish?

Thanks!

Ryan

[chileno]

Originally Posted by rpgray

Hi,

I hope this is the right place to post this. Is anyone here reading Don Quijote in the original Spanish? Or have you read Don Quijote in the Original Spanish?

Thanks!

Ryan

Hi:

What is/are your question(s).

[JPablo]

Hi, Ryan,
I read the whole Don Quijote in the original Spanish about 27 years ago, when I was 20. I have an English version (I have not read that yet) and the Gustavo Doré illustrated version in Spanish, which I want to re-read one of these days... My Dad has the Dalí illustrated version and some other versions...
I have had realizations about this book "after the fact", i.e., even after having read it long ago, I become aware of things already said there that happen "now". By the by, the second part to me is the best.

If you have any questions about some specific section or phrase, do not hesitate to ask... I will answer you with my Spanglish... and sure enough I will have to find the answer, if I don't know... (I bet when I read it again I am going to feel awed, by the number of details I missed in my first reading...)

By the by, welcome to the forums!!

[rpgray]

Originally Posted by chileno

Hi:

What is/are your question(s).

Hi,

I have been told that the Spanish in Don Quijote is VERY different from modern Spanish and yet Spanish is sometimes called "The language of Cervantes". So, how different is it? If someone scooped up Miquel de Cervantes with a time Machine and dropped him in the middle of 2010 Madrid would he be able to communicate?

I picked up a Spanish edition printed by a company called punto de lectura. I notice it has numerous notes explaining some of the more archaic phrases.

By the way, I am much better at READING Spanish than I am in writing it. So if it seems strange that I am writing this post in Spanish that is why!

Cheers,

Ryan

Originally Posted by JPablo

Hi, Ryan,
I read the whole Don Quijote in the original Spanish about 27 years ago, when I was 20. I have an English version (I have not read that yet) and the Gustavo Doré illustrated version in Spanish, which I want to re-read one of these days... My Dad has the Dalí illustrated version and some other versions...
I have had realizations about this book "after the fact", i.e., even after having read it long ago, I become aware of things already said there that happen "now". By the by, the second part to me is the best.

If you have any questions about some specific section or phrase, do not hesitate to ask... I will answer you with my Spanglish... and sure enough I will have to find the answer, if I don't know... (I bet when I read it again I am going to feel awed, by the number of details I missed in my first reading...)

By the by, welcome to the forums!!

Thanks! I am reading it, very slowly, and I wonder, is this the very first literary example of what we now call a parody? It is mocking a style of fiction that was popular at the time.

[JPablo]

Well, you may call it a 'parody'.
In many senses, it is a 'parody' of all the 'chivalresque novels'... some author (I don't remember who, just now) said, "representa el fracaso de una España enajenada en un ideal casi sublime, pero evidentemente anacrónico = (roughly) = "it represents the failure of Spain, [a country] deranged in pursuit of an almost sublime [noble, lofty], but obviously anachronistic [out of its 'old times] one [the pursuit]"

(I take Chileno has answered you while I got into other things, but I bet Cervantes would be able to understand a lot of what is going on in today... in the same way Shakespeare would in current England... there would be some linguistic shock in many cases... but I think they both could get along... somehow...

[Perikles]

OK, I confess I have tried several times to read Don Quijote both in Spanish and English, and have given up at various places near the beginning. Now I don't give up easily - I have read the most difficult classical literature in Greek, German, and French. I have read Márquez El amor en los tiempos del cólera three times. I have read Milton Paradise Lost, but I can't think why. I have even read the whole of several PhD theses, one on Laser physics, one on ancient Greek history, and a German one actually written in Latin. I can name only a handful of books which I have been unable to finish. One of them is DQ. It is on my desk in front of me, unopened for over a year. I just fail to see the point. Obviously I am missing something, because just about everybody claims it to be the pinnacle of Spanish literature. Why? I've never known a book to be such hard going.

Perhaps I should try again.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Ryan: Punto de Lectura is a serious printing company, so it must be a good edition.
I doubt that Cervantes could communicate in 2010 with his original Spanish. Languages are dynamic institutions and what was popular or common or correct one time, a few years later is very different, and that's what makes them a huge part of the spirit of a nation.

As for reading the book, I have never been able to go past the first 20 pages or so. I've tried different versions: with notes, without notes, adaptations to modern Spanish...


@Perikles: This is a formal declaration of love.
(Same story with Ulysses, remember?)

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Perikles: This is a formal declaration of love.
(Same story with Ulysses, remember?)

Yes, Ulysses is another one. I forgot that I had a rant about that one as well.

[pjt33]

Is Ulysses actually intended to be read? I rather assumed that it was intended to show how clever Joyce was.

At least with Quijote there are probably a dozen abridged or paraphrased versions for children.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by pjt33

Is Ulysses actually intended to be read? I rather assumed that it was intended to show how clever Joyce was..

Writing something totally unreadable is hardly a display of cleverness, but I see what you mean.

[JPablo]

Well, I never read Ulysses. I read some parts of it in the Valverde (José María) translation, when I was 18 or so, and given I liked Valverde very much, and my English knowledge at that time was limited to "Yes" "No" "Zenquiu" [Thank you] and "Plis" [Please], I was grateful for having it into Spanish... Other than that, I believe Finnagans Wake is even harder??

Well, we can talk about opinions about books and everyone will have his/hers. The moment there is just ONE word that is not understood in one page, the whole page "BLANKS" OUT OF MEMORY, so one has "read" one page, yet, that page is completely BLANK. That happens in any kind of reading. Of course, if the author peppers his pages with abstruse, esoteric and hard to understand terms, the "book" becomes absolutely unfathomable, incomprehensible, and "stays there" on the shelve, the desk or whatever... The 'solution' if one is 'intent' to 'get through' a book, is to find out when you last were 'doing well' with your reading, and find out, just before you 'got into trouble' any misunderstood word or symbol, clarify it... and 'see the light'. That may sound as a 'simple recipe', but it works.

To me, being fluent in Spanish, having read some good quantity of books... Don Quijote is quite a task. I read it during a whole Christmas holiday (3 weeks in Spain) almost on a full-time basis... I finished the 1st part, and then I read the second part little by little every day, until I completed it on a full-time basis, on the next holiday, Easter... and on these 10 days, also on a full time basis, almost 8 hours of reading a day I completed the 2nd part. I must recognize there were sections in the first part that seemed a bit slow, or boring... (most likely I have misunderstandings galore in those sections) That's maybe why I want to re-read it, to clarify anything I missed!
But the thing about it that is actually great, are the many, many adventures that are exciting, and the humor that is salted through this, "the tomiest tome one can get a hold of..." there are places in the book where you just laugh your a** off!

I would not recommend it as the FIRST lecture for someone trying to learn Spanish... I would go with something more "modern" like Capitán Alatriste... or even 98 generation writers... or something easier... but if you one has the time, it is always enjoyable... if you understand it...

If any questions, on anything in "el ingenioso hidalgo", I will be more than willing to check it out and answer you... but now I am going to lunch... and like it says in Don Quixote: "Después de comer, ni un sobre siquiera leer..."

[explorator]

I have a French fiend who told me that reading "El Quijote" was compulsory in the Spanish Studies at the French University. I found it logical but quite difficult for students of Spanish as foreign language. It contains many words used in the seventeenth century way (eg. the term por tanto, in" El Quijote", has to be translated as today's French word pourtant =sin embargo, just the opposite of our current translation). In addition to this it contains a vocabulary or thousand of words, many of them very ancient and difficult to find in a bilingual dictionary, I recommend you the Diccionario de la Real Academia Española de la Lengua (DRAE). It is available on line and there is a free application of it for Ipod and Ipad. Anyway I encourage you to read it. It is a nice challenge!

[JPablo]

Yes, I agree with Explorator. It is a nice challenge, but it is also a lot of fun... And yes, you will have to clear many words not used anymore... but then again, all these words refer to things that are not used or in existence anymore, in many cases... One challenge which is even more arduous (and maybe not so much fun) is to read "Poema de Mio Cid" (in Old Spanish version, Collin Smith edition, with footnotes) But that's for really advanced students... I.e., nothing that you are going to use talking with the flower girl at the corner of the street... (Yet, beautiful Epic poetry, when you understand its meaning...) De los sos oxos tan fuerte mientre lorando tornava la cabe/ca i estava los catando...

[hermit]

I was fortunate to have read/studied El Quijote with an excellent professor of Spanish Literature from Barcelona - We spent an entire
semester reading and discussing entirely in Spanish - I loved it.

When reading Ulysses in an Irish Renaissance Literature course (Yeats/Joyce), the english prof encouraged us to "lean on" the
Stuart Gilbert companion study guide, and it was a great help...
wonderfully complex work...pretty tall order to read completely
on one's own.

As for Finnegan's Wake, the only question on the final exam was:
"How did you like it?". Having leafed through it, I found it to be an absorbing linguistic study of poetic humor in prose. I still pick it up
now and again just for fun...

[JPablo]

I am glad to read you enjoyed it. Like everything, if you can understand it and follow it... it is a lot of fun... I will tackle Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake when I grow up, after reading the original Alice in Wonderland... given that my English is still in its infancy... but like the Spanish saw goes, "Todo se andará".
Greetings! (Oh, and yes, I will follow your teacher's advice and 'lean on' the reference you mention...)

[poli]

Originally Posted by JPablo

I am glad to read you enjoyed it. Like everything, if you can understand it and follow it... it is a lot of fun... I will tackle Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake when I grow up, after reading the original Alice in Wonderland... given that my English is still in its infancy... but like the Spanish saw goes, "Todo se andará".
Greetings! (Oh, and yes, I will follow your teacher's advice and 'lean on' the reference you mention...)

By all means once you finish Alice proceed to "Through the Looking Glass".
It is truly a masterpiece. Besides being hilarious, its point of view is very current. I believe it has one of the most moving poems (The Walrus and the Carpenter)

[JPablo]

Originally Posted by poli

By all means once you finish Alice proceed to "Through the Looking Glass".
It is truly a masterpiece. Besides being hilarious, its point of view is very current. I believe it has one of the most moving poems (The Walrus and the Carpenter)

I will, Poli... I will. I think Lewis Carroll was an absolute genius... indeed.

[Cheshire]

Sé que debo leer el Quixote en castellano, ¡pero me da miedo!

Sí, he leído una versión en inglés y me gustó mucho. No esperaba que sería gracioso, pero me reí de carcajadas.

[JPablo]

Bueno, si tienes la versión en inglés, puedes leerlo en español, y usar la versión inglesa para aclarar cualquier cosa...
Tu nivel de castellano es muy bueno, así que no creo que tengas demasiados problemas... Yo mismo tengo que aclararme cosas y buscar en el diccionario, y leer las notas a pie de página para enterarme de todo...