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Una pica en Flandes

 

An idiom is an expression whose meaning is not readily apparent based on the individual words in the expression. This forum is dedicated to discussing idioms and other sayings.


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  #1
Old September 17, 2010, 06:21 AM
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Una pica en Flandes

Can someone translate this saying? Thanks.
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  #2
Old September 17, 2010, 07:47 AM
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poner una pica en Flandes to bring off a coup

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Esta expresión nació en la época de Carlos V. En esa época y en las décadas siguientes el Imperio Español estaba envuelto en varios conflictos, contra Turquía, Inglaterra, Portugal, Francia, Flandes… En este panorama, belicoso y revuelto, era muy complicado formar un ejército y hacerlo llegar hasta Flandes, ya que ante la imposibilidad de atravesar Francia, las huestes tenían que pasar por el Mediterráneo y desde allí, hasta Flandes, por lo que el viaje era largo y costoso. Gracias a los “piqueros” soldados con una lanza larga muy efectiva llamada “pica” se consiguió la victoria. Así pues, Carlos V, consiguió a toda costa, "Poner una pica en Flandes" es decir, llevar a buen puerto algo muy complicado de resolver. Visitar Bruselas en Enero a pesar del frío y de la nieve no fue como “Poner una pica en Flandes” fue más bien “Coser y cantar”…pero de lo de “Coser y cantar” ya lo contaré en otro ocasión……

Last edited by Perikles; September 17, 2010 at 07:55 AM.
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  #3
Old September 17, 2010, 10:59 AM
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I agree with Perikles. But I must add that at that time, Flanders belonged to the Spanish Empire. Carlos was Carlos I de España y V de Alemania (o del Sacro Imperio Romano-Germánico). We prefer call him Carlos I.
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  #4
Old September 17, 2010, 05:36 PM
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Así pues, la expresión es harto conocida y usada en las Españas. Moliner la define así:
Poner una [buena] pica en Flandes. Conseguir algo provechoso y difícil de conseguir: ‘Si se sostiene en estas circunstancias habrá puesto una pica en Flandes’.

Curiosamente, el DRAE da algunas expresiones más que yo desconocía: (el símbolo ~ representa la palabra "pica" aquí.)
pasar por las ~s. 1. loc. verb. Pasar muchos trabajos e incomodidades.
poder pasar por las ~s de Flandes algo.
1. loc. verb. Tener toda su perfección y poder pasar por cualquier censura y vencer toda dificultad.
poner una ~ en Flandes.
1. loc. verb. coloq. Ser mucha la dificultad para conseguir algo.
saltar por las ~s de Flandes.
1. loc. verb. coloq. Atropellar por cualesquiera respetos o inconvenientes.
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  #5
Old September 18, 2010, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPablo View Post
Así pues, la expresión es harto conocida y usada en las Españas.
en las Españas ?
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  #6
Old September 18, 2010, 12:39 PM
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@Perikles: I think Irma and Pablo will have much more to say on that expression, but it's understood as the lands and peoples in that territory.
I haven't heard that plural used about any other country (las Alemanias, las Inglaterras, los Méxicos...) though.
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Last edited by AngelicaDeAlquezar; September 18, 2010 at 12:41 PM.
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  #7
Old September 18, 2010, 01:15 PM
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In Spain, people would go to "las Américas" or "las Indias Occidentales"...
You may google "las Españas" and find many, many usages... "Rey de las Españas" "héroe de las Españas" "conquistador de las Españas".

There are several aspects, one is every kingdom of the peninsula, but then, all the "colonies" were referred as such...

Another usage of the plural can be read in Machado (and many others) "Españolito que vienes al mundo, te guarde Dios: una de las dos Españas ha de helarte el corazón".

Here is one link as an example of this second sense (I haven't read it myself yet, but at a glance seems promising...)
http://www.letraslibres.com/index.php?art=14595

For the first, there are many,
http://www.filosofia.org/hem/dep/rde/index.htm
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  #8
Old September 18, 2010, 01:43 PM
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It goes back at least to Roman times - and they also had "the Gauls" - cis- and trans-Alpine.
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  #9
Old September 18, 2010, 01:45 PM
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Ah, sí, ¡la famosa Guerra de las Galias!

-Muchas Galias.
-De Nadia.
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  #10
Old September 19, 2010, 06:11 AM
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As far as I know, "las Españas" are known all the territories which belonged to Spain, even before 1492. Spain was divided into various kingdoms from the begining of its History. After Muslim domination, "las españas" were the Christian kingdoms reconquered to the Muslims.

All the kings and queens who had kingdoms in Spain in the Middle Ages (Castilla, León, Aragón, etc.) recognised that their kingdoms belonged to Spain. So, they called their kingdoms "las Españas".

Los Reyes Católicos, who joined Castilla to Aragón, were already called "Reyes de España", but also "Reyes de las Españas".

The Spanish Constitution of 1812 also talks about "las Españas".

Until nineteenth century Spanish coins used to have the words "Hispaniarum Rex".

I hope it's clearer now.

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  #11
Old September 19, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Sí, gracias
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