Algunas preguntas sobre un ejercicio (15-3)

[laepelba]

This exercise involves the subjunctivo imperfecto, but my questions on this exercise don't involve that tense (yet).... This is another translation exercise, so I have some questions about sentence construction and use of the imperfect vs. preterit in the indicative (and a couple of other, less important things).

4) English sentence: Ann and Mary wanted seats that were close to the screen.
My attempt at translation: Ann y Mary quisieron asientos que estuvieran cerca de la pantalla.
The book's "answer": Ann y Mary querían asientos que estuvieran cerca de la pantalla.
My question: Is this one of those situations where "querer" could be used either in the preterit or the imperfect?

5) English sentence: They did not want to watch the commercials before the movie started.
My attempt at translation: No quisieron ver los anuncios antes de que la película empezara.
The book's "answer": Ellos no querían ver los comerciales antes de que empezara la película.
My questions:
(a) Same as above - could "querer" be either preterit or imperfect?
(b) Are anuncios and comerciales interchangeable here?
(c) Does the order of "empezara la película" matter?

6) English sentence: Jack left the movie theater before the film ended.
My attempt at translation: Jack se fue el cine antes de que la película terminara.
The book's "answer": Jack se fue del cine antes de que terminara la película.
My question: Same as in #5, does the order of "terminara la película" matter?

My concern is really about the two questions on the preterit vs. imperfect. Thanks so much!!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

This exercise involves the subjunctivo imperfecto, but my questions on this exercise don't involve that tense (yet).... This is another translation exercise, so I have some questions about sentence construction and use of the imperfect vs. preterit in the indicative (and a couple of other, less important things).

4) English sentence: Ann and Mary wanted seats that were close to the screen.
My attempt at translation: Ann y Mary quisieron asientos que estuvieran cerca de la pantalla.
The book's "answer": Ann y Mary querían asientos que estuvieran cerca de la pantalla.
My question: Is this one of those situations where "querer" could be used either in the preterit or the imperfect?
In this case "querían" is the correct one, as it was concrete, not a supposition.

5) English sentence: They did not want to watch the commercials before the movie started.
My attempt at translation: No quisieron ver los anuncios antes de que la película empezara.
The book's "answer": Ellos no querían ver los comerciales antes de que empezara la película.
My questions:
(a) Same as above - could "querer" be either preterit or imperfect? To me in this case Yes.
(b) Are anuncios and comerciales interchangeable here? Yes
(c) Does the order of "empezara la película" matter? No

6) English sentence: Jack left the movie theater before the film ended.
My attempt at translation: Jack se fue del cine antes de que la película terminara.
The book's "answer": Jack se fue del cine antes de que terminara la película.
My question: Same as in #5, does the order of "terminara la película" matter? No
In this case, depending of the narration, "se iba del cine" could also be used.

My concern is really about the two questions on the preterit vs. imperfect. Thanks so much!!

Hope it helps.

[aleCcowaN]

The general tone promotes a translation using imperfect. [This may be developed further as an independent topic in the grammar section]

5b) It depends on the country. "Comerciales" provides the most neutral translation.

5c and 6) Both word orders are O.K. but common people favour 'terminara la película'. It has to do with collocations and grammar processing [This also may be developed further]

[JPablo]

Agree with the above.

Just on 5b) In Spain "comerciales" is not used as much as "anuncios". (It was even considered "incorrect" in Spain, as the usage in America probably comes from the word "commercial" which in Spanish used to be just an adjective, not a noun.) In Argentina, and rest of Latin America you are okay with "comerciales".

[irmamar]

With "verbos estativos" (stative verbs), such as: saber, querer, conocer, ser "algo", amar, etc., we use imperfect to show that this is a continuous state (and the verb tells nothing about its ending):

Ellos eran inteligentes.
Ellas querían asientos cercanos a la pantalla.
Nosotros nos amábamos.
Nadie sabía nada del tema.

You can use simple past when you want to say "just at that moment":

Quisieron comprar pasteles (just at that moment).
Querían comprar pasteles (they had in their mind the idea of buying some cakes).

The first sentence tells me that they bought cakes. The second doesn't tell me if they did.

Querían sentarse cerca de la pantalla y lo hicieron.
They wanted seats close to the screen and they got them.

If I don't add the second part of the sentence, I don't know if they got them.

No querían ver los anuncios/comerciales.

I don't know if they watched the commercials or not.

Ellas no quisieron ver los anuncios/comerciales.

They didn't watch them.

I hope it helps.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by laepelba

This exercise involves the subjuntivo imperfecto, but my questions on this exercise don't involve that tense (yet).... This is another translation exercise, so I have some questions about sentence construction and use of the imperfect vs. preterit in the indicative (and a couple of other, less important things).
<---- DOH, again! Moderator? Please help me edit the spelling in my first post!! Thanks!!

Originally Posted by chileno

Hope it helps.
<---- It does help ... but a quick question ... Does "preterit" indicate "supposition"?

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

The general tone promotes a translation using imperfect. [This may be developed further as an independent topic in the grammar section] <---- "tone" like the description of a setting?

5b) It depends on the country. "Comerciales" provides the most neutral translation.

5c and 6) Both word orders are O.K. but common people favour 'terminara la película'. It has to do with collocations and grammar processing [This also may be developed further]
<------ Alec, did you ever see my question about trying to find a book of Spanish collocations? If you have any suggestions, I would love to hear them!

Originally Posted by irmamar

With "verbos estativos" (stative verbs), such as: saber, querer, conocer, ser "algo", amar, etc., we use imperfect to show that this is a continuous state (and the verb tells nothing about its ending):
<----- "continuous" meaning that you can't prove an end to a particular "action"?

Ellos eran inteligentes.
Ellas querían asientos cercanos a la pantalla.
Nosotros nos amábamos.
Nadie sabía nada del tema.

You can use simple past when you want to say "just at that moment":

Quisieron comprar pasteles (just at that moment).
Querían comprar pasteles (they had in their mind the idea of buying some cakes).

The first sentence tells me that they bought cakes. The second doesn't tell me if they did.

Querían sentarse cerca de la pantalla y lo hicieron.
They wanted seats close to the screen and they got them.

If I don't add the second part of the sentence, I don't know if they got them.

No querían ver los anuncios/comerciales.

I don't know if they watched the commercials or not.

Ellas no quisieron ver los anuncios/comerciales.

They didn't watch them.

I hope it helps.
<------ Yes, VERY helpful!! So ... if I can't show/assume an end to the action, then it should definitely be imperfect? Hmmm....

Thanks, EVERYONE!!!

[irmamar]

Aspecto perfecto: acción acabada.
Aspecto imperfecto o imperfectivo: acción no acabada.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Aspecto perfecto: acción acabada.
Aspecto imperfecto o imperfectivo: acción no acabada.

Very helpful - thanks! It's just hard sometimes to tell "if" an action is unfinished because they WERE wanting those seats, but since the movie is long over, they don't want them any more.... That's the thing that confuses me. It was an ongoing action at the point in time about which we are talking, but it is NOT an ongoing action any more...... So, in reality, both imperfect and preterit talk about "acciones acabadas" ... and that's where I am making most of my errors........

[irmamar]

In a logical way, you're right, but you don't have to think if what happened is finished or not, but what a sentence tells. I'm not sure how to explain it in English, maybe this link is useful.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by laepelba

What I was trying to say is that you have interesting questions but you ask them all in the same thread. I'm sure it looks the logical thing to do asking about all the doubts on some group of exercises, but when some doubt goes beyond the specific topic it is convenient to open a specific thread in the grammar forum. The objective is not only get the best of it but -the most important- to have it clear and accessible to many people in the future. In your case there are many key points of imperfect (like "Jack se fue" and ended up "ido" but "ellas no querían" but they didn't end up "no queridas") and word order and collocations (not so important in Spanish) and info processing (very important in Spanish) that deserve their own threads. Do it for the future!

[laepelba]

Alec - I understand (and appreciate) your point ... without wanting to start a big discussion on this, I see this as the "homework" section ... I'm not asking general questions about overarching grammar points, but specific questions about multiple problems in an exercise. I can't imagine posting a different new thread for each separate question. This one alone would have been five new threads..... I'm not looking for big discussions, but just explanations about specific problems that I've completed..... Otherwise, what is this sub-forum for?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Alec - I understand (and appreciate) your point ... without wanting to start a big discussion on this, I see this as the "homework" section ... I'm not asking general questions about overarching grammar points, but specific questions about multiple problems in an exercise. I can't imagine posting a different new thread for each separate question. This one alone would have been five new threads..... I'm not looking for big discussions, but just explanations about specific problems that I've completed..... Otherwise, what is this sub-forum for?

Why not? I didn't mean minced exercises but all the imperfect aspect related to this exercise deserving its own thread, otherwise, what is the grammar sub-forum for? It makes to a successful thread to allow people to learn and build in top of it in the future. Such threads are about specific grammar topics or vocabulary, not about translations or exercises. I'm not saying it is not worth asking about the latter, but we should pursue the greater good, so any general issue related to a specific exercise that may need carefully thought explanations should be dis-attached from the exercise and discussed in a manner other people would be able to find it using search engines and benefit from it.

[laepelba]

Why not? Probably because I've asked about imperfect vs. preterit a zillion times before and it isn't getting into my thick head..... When I'm finishing a grammar exercise and I have a few quick questions, I just want a few quick answers.... When I have a more over-arching, general-grammar-related question, I tend to ask it in the Grammar forum.... Maybe I need to double check the sub-forum descriptions before I continue defending this...

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Lou Ann: Do what makes you feel more comfortable. Sometimes, associating a group of answers is easier to remember the use of some expressions or structures and sometimes it's easier to have them all grouped in similar topics.