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Does "avisar" require subjunctive in the subordinate clause?

 

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  #1  
Old August 25, 2010, 05:31 PM
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Question Does "avisar" require subjunctive in the subordinate clause?

The sentence in my book as follows, and I am to choose indicative vs. subjunctive: Los científicos avisan que los cambios meteorológicos continúan/continúen.

The answer is indicative: continúan

From what I've studied so far, the following types of main clauses require the subjunctive:
1) Deseo o necesidad (como querer, esperar, etc.)
2) Emociones, gustos y preferencias (como alegrarse, sorprenderse, molestarse, temerse, etc.)
3) Influencia (como recomendar, proponer, ordenar, obligar, permitir, prohibir, oponerse, etc.)
4) Duda y posibilidad (como dudar, ser posible, posiblemente, etc.)
5) Certeza, pensamientos y creencias (como no creer, no pensar, etc.)
6) Juicios de valor (como parecerse bueno/malo, ser justo/importante, etc.)

Now, I've bolded #3. To me, avisar seems like a verb of influence. BUT ... is it sometimes used with an indicative subordinate clause and sometimes with a subjunctive subordinate clause?

For example, would the following two sentences be correct?
Indicative: Mi jefe nos avisó que había una reunión esta mañana. (Indicative because he's merely notifying us that there was a meeting this morning.)
Subjunctive: Mi jefe nos avisó que la reunión de lunes sea larga. (Subjunctive because he's warning us that the meeting will be long.)

Is my thinking here correct?
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  #2  
Old August 26, 2010, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
To me, avisar seems like a verb of influence. BUT ... is it sometimes used with an indicative subordinate clause and sometimes with a subjunctive subordinate clause?

For example, would the following two sentences be correct?
Indicative: Mi jefe nos avisó que había una reunión esta mañana. (Indicative because he's merely notifying us that there was a meeting this morning.)
Subjunctive: Mi jefe nos avisó que la reunión de lunes sea larga. (Subjunctive because he's warning us that the meeting will be long.)

Is my thinking here correct?
I think you are on the right lines - avisar can mean either notify or warn. My dictionary gives:

¿por qué no me avisaste que venías? - clearly to notify, with indicative

avísame cuando acabes let me know when you've finished. Not so clear, but with a subjunctive, although the verb might not be responsible for that (What I don't understand is why the second use is marked as an intransitive verb )

In your above example, you have the preterite indicative with a present subjunctive - I didn't think that combination was possible.

I'm not much help really....
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Old August 26, 2010, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
In your above example, you have the preterite indicative with a present subjunctive - I didn't think that combination was possible.

I'm not much help really....<--Sure you are.
What I was trying to say in my second example is that we received an e-mail from our boss (yesterday) that the meeting (which will be held on Monday) may be rather long. So, given that it's my understanding that the future subjunctive really isn't used, but that the future can be perceived from the present subjunctive, I thought that it would work like that. It's how I *think* it ... but I'm not sure about the grammar rules of which tenses in the principal clause can be used with which tenses in the subordinate clause.... How would you go about saying that?
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
How would you go about saying that?
Well, I think if a subjunctive, then the imperfect. After all, it is the same in English:

My boss notified us that the meeting would be a long one.

That is a past subjunctive, and is correct even if the meeting is a future event. I don't think Cervantes would have used a future subjunctive if the main verb were preterite.
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:09 AM
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I had been thinking "My boss notified us that the meeting will be long." But what you're saying makes sense...

So would you say: Mi jefe nos avisó que la reunión de lunes fuera larga.

So, back to what I was getting at originally ... with "avisar" in the principal clause, the meaning will have to determine the use of indicative or subjunctive in the subordinate clause?
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:14 AM
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Sorry, I'll take that back, after having read my grammar book. It is true that there are clear sequences of tenses, but the rules can be broken if the sense demands it. Example given is

Ayer llevé el coche al garaje para que lo reparen

Here, a past action with a present subjunctive, because they haven't mended it yet.

Having said that, I still think the imperfect subjunctive would not be wrong, but we need some expert advice here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
So, back to what I was getting at originally ... with "avisar" in the principal clause, the meaning will have to determine the use of indicative or subjunctive in the subordinate clause?
Yes, I think so, but maybe others will disagree..

Last edited by AngelicaDeAlquezar; August 27, 2010 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Merged back-to-back posts
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:22 AM
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Wait ... so the subjunctive is needed because it's a future event, not because it's "influence"?

So if I changed my first example to my boss notifying us of an upcoming meeting, it would be:
Mi jefe nos avisó que haya una reunión el lunes por la mañana.
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
The sentence in my book as follows, and I am to choose indicative vs. subjunctive: Los científicos avisan que los cambios meteorológicos continúan/continúen.

The answer is indicative: continúan

From what I've studied so far, the following types of main clauses require the subjunctive:
1) Deseo o necesidad (como querer, esperar, etc.)
2) Emociones, gustos y preferencias (como alegrarse, sorprenderse, molestarse, temerse, etc.)
3) Influencia (como recomendar, proponer, ordenar, obligar, permitir, prohibir, oponerse, etc.)
4) Duda y posibilidad (como dudar, ser posible, posiblemente, etc.)
5) Certeza, pensamientos y creencias (como no creer, no pensar, etc.)
6) Juicios de valor (como parecerse bueno/malo, ser justo/importante, etc.)

Now, I've bolded #3. To me, avisar seems like a verb of influence. BUT ... is it sometimes used with an indicative subordinate clause and sometimes with a subjunctive subordinate clause?

For example, would the following two sentences be correct?
Indicative: Mi jefe nos avisó que había una reunión esta mañana. (Indicative because he's merely notifying us that there was a meeting this morning.)
Subjunctive: Mi jefe nos avisó que la reunión de lunes sea larga. (Subjunctive because he's warning us that the meeting will be long.)

Is my thinking here correct?
I am not sure subjunctive is used....

But these are the combinations that I know.

El jefe nos avisó que habrá/habría esta mañana.

El jefe nos avisó que la reunión del lunes será larga.
El jefe nos avisó que la reunión del lunes sería larga.

Ninguna de esas dos me suenan a subjunctivo, pero así se usan.
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
I am not sure subjunctive is used.... <--ever?

But these are the combinations that I know.

El jefe nos avisó que habrá/habría esta mañana.

El jefe nos avisó que la reunión del lunes será larga.
El jefe nos avisó que la reunión del lunes sería larga.

Ninguna de esas dos me suenan a subjunctivo, pero así se usan.
I've also seen the same sentence that Perikles used: avísame cuando acabes - let me know when you've finished. (It's in the WordReference dictionary which draws from Oxford...) What is the difference in the case here that would require the subjunctive, but not in the others you mention here?
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  #10  
Old August 26, 2010, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Wait ... so the subjunctive is needed because it's a future event, not because it's "influence"?
I think this is the case. I don't think avisar triggers the subjunctive, but a conjunction of time when it relates to the future:

avísame cuando acabes let me know when you've finished.

En cuanto llegue, te llamo por teléfono
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