La masco pero no la trago

[silopanna]

Those phrases are actually using an INDIRECT object pronoun, Dean. And they are used in Latin America.
Rusty,

Hmmm... So it is like saying "dale XYZ a Rafael" , le and Rafael being the indirect. Ok.

Actually, I usually speak the indirect like that correctly because that is the way they speak in Spain and that's where I learned. I can't always dissect the grammar, but I can usually think it out and, like I say, I usually say it right.

But I hae to admit that using lo and la as the direct object is something that I do stumble on. In fact, it is probably the only grammar that I will stumble on. The only other thing that I stumble on might be a lack of vocabulary, which I can deal with.

But this exchange has been helpful to me.

Dean

[María José]

The correct object pronoun is the direct object pronoun. So, only lo or la should be used. That being said, however, it is possible to use le in Spain (but only if the object is masculine). This practice is called leísmo. It is not practiced elsewhere.
And not all over Spain. Like you, Rusty I know the rules, but in Madrid we always use those pronouns the wrong way. When I moved to Castilla La Mancha people corrected me constantly, and now I find it terribly confusing.
Anyway, I know there is léismo, laísmo and loísmo. But I think the case you mentioned is not actually leísmo, as it's the only instance in which the use of le for the direct object is allowed.
Do check with a more reliable source, though. It's just an idea.:):):)

[silopanna]

Rusty and Maria Jose,

I was once told by a teacher from Castilla that, all things said and done, le is for people and lo and la are for things. But this doesn't completely fit in with the grammar that you are exlaining to me.

Now, that teacher could have been fanatic or using some kind of past standard, so my mind is a clean slate at the moment.

But for example, in the sentence "lo masco pero no lo trago", I could say "le" also because Rusty has told me that "le" can be the masculine direct object.

But then in the sentence "la masco pero no la trago" I can't use "le" because le cannot be the feminine pronoun.

But then this isn't what the Castillian teacher told me, she just said that "le" is for people and "lo" and "la" are for things; and I went along my merry way. Now I am hearing something different.

Also, I have just seen in a Latin American dialogue book a sentence that went something like this: "Lo comunico con el señor X". The pronoun "lo" is certainly the object of the verb, but it refers to a person.

The monkey wrench for me is that Rusty has said that "le" cannot be a feminine objective pronoun. Otherwise, I could just use "le" for men and women, and "la" and "lo" for things.

Excuse me if I am splitting hairs, but I go on and on with Spanish, and I never got this down pat.

Thanks for the attention,

Dean

[Rusty]

Dean, don't worry about splitting hairs. It's important, in my opinion, to know what the rules are. I also think it's important to know and mimic how the people use the language, grammar tossed aside.

To clearly state the rules:
Le is the third person singular INDIRECT object pronoun. It is used for all third persons (you (a usted), him (a él), and her (a ella), and any other masculine or feminine object that is the indirect recipient of the verb's action).
Lo is the third person singular DIRECT object pronoun. It is used for masculine third persons (you (usted) and him (él), and any other masculine object).
La is the third person singular DIRECT object pronoun used for feminine third persons only (you (usted) and her (ella), and any other feminine object).

Some people (I'll just say it that way) incorrectly use these pronouns, and grammarians have labeled the misusages.
When the direct object lo is substituted with le, this is called leísmo.
When the indirect object le is substituted with lo or la, this is known as loísmo and laísmo, respectively.

I recommend learning the rules, but at the same time I wouldn't want you to stick out like a sore thumb.
A donde fueres, haz lo que vieres (http://www.tomisimo.org/idioms/es/a-donde-fueres-haz-lo-que-vieres-2987.html). :)

[María José]

Rusty and Maria Jose,

I was once told by a teacher from Castilla that, all things said and done, le is for people and lo and la are for things. But this doesn't completely fit in with the grammar that you are exlaining to me.

Now, that teacher could have been fanatic or using some kind of past standard, so my mind is a clean slate at the moment.

But for example, in the sentence "lo masco pero no lo trago", I could say "le" also because Rusty has told me that "le" can be the masculine direct object.

But then in the sentence "la masco pero no la trago" I can't use "le" because le cannot be the feminine pronoun.

But then this isn't what the Castillian teacher told me, she just said that "le" is for people and "lo" and "la" are for things; and I went along my merry way. Now I am hearing something different.

Also, I have just seen in a Latin American dialogue book a sentence that went something like this: "Lo comunico con el señor X". The pronoun "lo" is certainly the object of the verb, but it refers to a person.

The monkey wrench for me is that Rusty has said that "le" cannot be a feminine objective pronoun. Otherwise, I could just use "le" for men and women, and "la" and "lo" for things.

Excuse me if I am splitting hairs, but I go on and on with Spanish, and I never got this down pat.

Thanks for the attention,

Dean
No need to apologize, your post is very interesting.

The problem is I am Spanish and I still self-correct myself when speaking... this is also a stumbling block for me.
I am almost sure that Rusty is right, though. You wouldn't use le for a woman if it was the direct object. You could say le for both men and women in the case of an indirect object.

Direct Object
LLámala (fem)
LLámale/ Llámalo (masc)
Indirect Oject
Dale el libro a Juan (masc)
Dale el libro a María (fem)
Hope this helps.:)

[chileno]

Direct Object
LLámala (fem)
LLámale/ Llámalo (masc)
Indirect Oject
Dale el libro a Juan (masc)
Dale el libro a María (fem)
Hope this helps.:)

In Chile we use it like this:

LLámala (fem)
Llámalo (masc) (ese llámale, we don't use it)

However, we use "llámele" (usted a él o ella) Is this still D.O.?

Indirect Object
Dale el libro a Juan (masc)
Dale el libro a María (fem)

Dele (usted) el libro a Juan or María. Is this still I.O.?

[poli]

In Chile we use it like this:

LLámala (fem)
Llámalo (masc) (ese llámale, we don't use it)

However, we use "llámele" (usted a él o ella) Is this still D.O.?

Indirect Object
Dale el libro a Juan (masc)
Dale el libro a María (fem)

Dele (usted) el libro a Juan or María. Is this still I.O.?
It is the indirect object.The a Juan/ a María helps define who the indirect object(le) is.

[chileno]

It is the indirect object.The a Juan/ a María helps define who the indirect object(le) is.

Ah, thank you Poli.