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-   -   What accent should I emulate? - Page 2 (https://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=16799)

What accent should I emulate? - Page 2


Villa September 10, 2013 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarnium (Post 142988)
Eh... not quite that simple for me, because there are so few Spanish-speaking people where I live. I'm trying to copy my teacher's east-central Spain accent because I hear it the most often, and because I don't want to spend time thinking about "standard" pronunciations during lessons. If she says "atenthión," I'd rather just copy her instead of mentally replacing the th with an s. Plus, I want to at least attempt to sound like a native speaker of some kind rather than having a generic American accent.

It's not the way the students in the Spanish club talk, though, and I get the feeling they think my way of speaking is a bit ridiculous. They're way more into Latin America. However, I don't want to try to copy the pronunciation of anyone who's not a native speaker. (And really, they're not mean or standoffish or anything. I'm just a little concerned that picking up a funny accent will be a barrier, they all sort of chuckle when I say something like "grathias.")

What exactly are the big no-nos for English speakers as far as pronunciation goes? From observing the other students and comparing them to my teacher, beyond the ceceo difference, they seem to:

-pronounce d's very sharply, without much or any of a the sound.
-pronounce vowels as distinct syllables instead of running them together. (Together with the previous one, they tend to say "ah-dee-os" instead of "athyos" like my teacher says, and like my textbook says to.)
-Pronounce j's exactly like an English h. (A guy from Guatemala, the only native speaker in the group did this too, so I'm thinking that that the strength of the j sound isn't that consistent across accents.)
-Pronounce v's and b's exactly like an English b.

Not that I'm knocking them; their vocabulary and word choice appears to be excellent, and native Spanish-speaking people are obviously able to understand them just fine. I know there's a very wide range of native pronunciation too.
I recorded my Mexican history class when I went to school in Mexico. I then listened to those recordings over and over again for a few years. People would tell me I sounded like a university professor with a perfect educated Mexican accent when I would speak Spanish. I suggest you record your classes and listen to them a lot. Will your teacher let you record her talking? I also can imitate the voices of Spanish speaking actors from the novelas I watch.

Zarnium September 11, 2013 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa (Post 142990)
Will your teacher let you record her talking? I also can imitate the voices of Spanish speaking actors from the novelas I watch.
Is there a particular model of voice recorder you would reccommend? I'm think of getting this one, because, it's cheap and the quality was acceptable in a test video I saw: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Digital-F...Sony+ICD-PX312 I'm concerned about how well it will record someone at the distance, but I also sit at the front row and it's a small class.

Villa September 11, 2013 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarnium (Post 142994)
Is there a particular model of voice recorder you would reccommend? I'm think of getting this one, because, it's cheap and the quality was acceptable in a test video I saw: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004M8SSZK/?tag=219-20 I'm concerned about how well it will record someone at the distance, but I also sit at the front row and it's a small class.
That one sounds good Zarnium. La cosa más importante is to sit in the front of the class cerca de la maestra. Es lo que yo siempre hago. When I recorded my Mexican History class I was right there in front every day. When I recorded my Italian History/Culture class in Italy I was right there in front. I used a barato hand held cassete recorder. Now I have the Samsung Galazy Note II the biggest cell phone there is. It's a phone, a camera, a video camera, a computer and a voice recorder. Don't have to worry about buying a voice recorder jamás/any more. I spent $1,500 on a camera. $1,000 on a video camera and $150 on a audio recorder yet my Galazy Note ll does all that. It also has a 32 GM card.

Since you live in the U.S. go to Staples, Best Buy, Fryes or any of those types of stores to look
at hand held portable voice recorders. I bought one from Staples. BTW, Staples has the best
deals on blank CDs and blank DVDs.

Also get novelas on DVD. You can rewind all you want and listen over and over to them. Use your hand held recorder and record from the novela DVDs. Take notes. Rewind when you don't understand.

On a side note is your Spanish teacher using at all a method called TPR/Total Physical Response?

Samsung Galaxy Note II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Premium September 11, 2013 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa (Post 142995)
La cosa más importante is to sit in the front of the class cerca de la maestra.
Is this the so-called Spanglish?

Zarnium September 11, 2013 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa (Post 142995)
Also get novelas on DVD. You can rewind all you want and listen over and over to them. Use your hand held recorder and record from the novela DVDs. Take notes. Rewind when you don't understand.
I think my school library has a variety of Spanish DVDs, so I'm going to take a look at them soon. I also have Pan's Labyrinth out right now to watch over the weekend. Plus, I discovered that one of my favorite video games, Portal 2, has a full Spanish voice acting and Spanish subtitles option. I know listening to a dub isn't as good as learning from a native Spanish voice track, but because I'm so familiar with that the characters are saying in English, it's really helping my vocabulary. Here's a clip, you can tell me what you think:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa (Post 142995)
On a side note is your Spanish teacher using at all a method called TPR/Total Physical Response?
I don't think so.

Villa September 11, 2013 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Premium (Post 142997)
Is this the so-called Spanglish?
No, se llama Code-switching. Es una cosa que nosotros los bilingües hacemos.


Code-switching - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AngelicaDeAlquezar September 11, 2013 04:46 PM
Discrepo con Villa. Las personas bilingües normalmente marcan la diferencia cuando hablan una lengua y otra.
Pero hay personas que mezclan una lengua con otra, sean o no bilingües; y normalmente lo hacen cuando asumen que las demás personas hablan las mismas lenguas y por lo tanto comprenderán sin necesidad de hacer una oración completa en el mismo idioma.

@Premium: El spanglish es algo mucho más complicado. No sólo mezcla palabras de una lengua en la otra, sino que también combina significados, crea neologismos, inventa conjugaciones y está construyendo ya su propia gramática. Está encaminado en convertirse en una lengua por sí misma.

Villa September 11, 2013 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarnium (Post 142998)
I think my school library has a variety of Spanish DVDs, so I'm going to take a look at them soon. I also have Pan's Labyrinth out right now to watch over the weekend. Plus, I discovered that one of my favorite video games, Portal 2, has a full Spanish voice acting and Spanish subtitles option. I know listening to a dub isn't as good as learning from a native Spanish voice track, but because I'm so familiar with that the characters are saying in English, it's really helping my vocabulary. Here's a clip, you can tell me what you think:

I don't think so.
This will tell you about TPR. I have used it to teach both
Spanish and Italian. It's a good addition to regular
teaching methods. I think of it as learning a second
language subconsciously. Eventually Spanish words
just starts flowing out of your mouth like magic
without any real conscious study.


What is TPR - Updated: Immersion and Dual Language

wrholt September 11, 2013 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Premium (Post 142997)
Is this the so-called Spanglish?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa (Post 142999)
No, se llama Code-switching. Es una cosa que nosotros los bilingües hacemos.

Code-switching - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes, that was an example of code-switching: Spanish grammar/syntax/vocabulary in some phrases/clauses, and English grammar/syntax/vocabulary in other phrases/clauses.

"Spanglish" typically refers to 2 other phenomena. It could mean:

a. Spanish grammar/syntax with some vocabulary borrowed (and maybe adapted) from English (or perhaps vice-versa).

b. 2 monolinguals trying to communicate through some shared words of English & Spanish and with a mixed & simplified grammar; that is, a Spanish/English pidgen.

Villa September 11, 2013 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrholt (Post 143002)
Yes, that was an example of code-switching: Spanish grammar/syntax/vocabulary in some phrases/clauses, and English grammar/syntax/vocabulary in other phrases/clauses.

"Spanglish" typically refers to 2 other phenomena. It could mean:

a. Spanish grammar/syntax with some vocabulary borrowed (and maybe adapted) from English (or perhaps vice-versa).

b. 2 monolinguals trying to communicate through some shared words of English & Spanish and with a mixed & simplified grammar; that is, a Spanish/English pidgen.
Gracias amigo wrholt. Has explicado todo como un profesor de la universidad.
Te felicito.

Premium September 11, 2013 10:09 PM
I was just joking, I should have put a smiley next to it.
We only mix the languages when we don't know how to say it in the language that we're speaking. Though this might only be the case in Austria. Young people who were born in Austria but have a Serbian/Bosnian/Turkish background, they usually do it when they speak in their mother tongue.

Zarnium September 12, 2013 02:33 PM
Do non-Spanish people say "Vale?" What about calling young adults/others of comparable age to yourself "chicos," as in "Hola Chicos?"

Villa September 12, 2013 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarnium (Post 143026)
Do non-Spanish people say "Vale?" What about calling young adults/others of comparable age to yourself "chicos," as in "Hola Chicos?"
I think it's mostly just people from Spain that say that. Cubans don't say it and they have a lot in common with the Spanish from Spain. However I knew some people from Sonora, Mexico that would say that. On a side note, they also ate black beans which I thought was some what unusual for the time. Most Mexicans eat pinto beans. Cubans have always been known for eating black beans but more people are eating them now. I just bring that up because I had no idea that Mexicans ate black beans at the time and I had no idea and had never heard Mexicans say vale in the sense of the word or expression as used in Spain. ¡Vale!

Any one else know of any Latin American Spanish speakers saying
vale? Vale más la práctica que la gramática. Of course that's different.

Just found this:

"The expression "vale" used in Spain to mean OK is relatively recent (about 50 years, maybe more), since many of our grandparents never used it. Some people think it started in Madrid, where it was very popular while it wasn't used that much in many other places. One of the intransitive meanings of "valer" in Spanish is "to be adecuate / acceptable / valid / helpful", so it is not that strange to conceive that "vale" can be understood as "It is acceptable or adecuate" in terms of agreement."

poli September 12, 2013 10:31 PM
Mexican foreros please clarify this, but I have heard sale vale used by Mexicans with basically the same meaning as vale in Spain. I am less sure of this, but I believe I have heard Argentinians use vale too, but less stridently less habitually than the Spanish vale. If my ears don't deceive me, Argentinians are more likely to use the word bueno to mean OK habitually. By the way Puerto Ricans us OK as habitually as Spaniards use vale.

AngelicaDeAlquezar September 13, 2013 08:42 AM
@Poli: Take a look here. :)

codady November 16, 2013 05:15 AM
Each region has something special


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