What accent should I emulate?

[Zarnium]

I'm a brand-new Spanish learner at college, and I have a question about accents. I want to get my pronunciation correct and minimize my American accent, and I thought the best way to do this would be to imitate a native speaker as closely as possible. However, I live in the United States, Ohio, and my teacher is from Spain. Her accent, while I like it, is a bit different from the Mexican and Caribbean accents that are usually seen in Spanish speaking people in the US. (Which I'm not actually very familiar with).

I'm thinking of trying to copy her accent, "ceceo" and all, to get practice pronouncing a Spanish-language accent, instead of just doing my best guess as to what a Mexican/Caribbean accent sounds like. However, I've heard that North American Spanish-speakers tend to think that the Peninsular accent is either absurd or pretentious, and I don't want to get the cold shoulder.

Also, while I live in the US, I also live in southeastern Ohio; there are very few hispanic immigrants here. This teacher and the ones that come after her are going to be the people that I hear Spanish from the most, and so I'm still thinking it might best to just try to copy them, whatever their accent is. If using a peninsular accent later on causes problems, I can always at least drop the ceceo.

Thoughts?

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

I'm a brand-new Spanish learner at college, and I have a question about accents. I want to get my pronunciation correct and minimize my American accent, and I thought the best way to do this would be to imitate a native speaker as closely as possible. However, I live in the United States, Ohio, and my teacher is from Spain. Her accent, while I like it, is a bit different from the Mexican and Caribbean accents that are usually seen in Spanish speaking people in the US. (Which I'm not actually very familiar with).

I'm thinking of trying to copy her accent, "ceceo" and all, to get practice pronouncing a Spanish-language accent, instead of just doing my best guess as to what a Mexican/Caribbean accent sounds like. However, I've heard that North American Spanish-speakers tend to think that the Peninsular accent is either absurd or pretentious, and I don't want to get the cold shoulder.

Also, while I live in the US, I also live in southeastern Ohio; there are very few hispanic immigrants here. This teacher and the ones that come after her are going to be the people that I hear Spanish from the most, and so I'm still thinking it might best to just try to copy them, whatever their accent is. If using a peninsular accent later on causes problems, I can always at least drop the ceceo.

Thoughts?

Hola Zardium. I'm actually very glad you asked this question because accents of Spanish(and or English, Italian)are my favorito subject.

The majority of Spanish speakers that live in the U.S. are from Mexcio and the Mexican accent for those of us living in the U.S. is the most logical accent to speak with. (We border Mexico. It's one of the longest borders in the world.) And I have the soluction for you amigo mio. Every night I watch 4 Mexican novelas, that's right, 4 Mexican novelas.
I went to Cuba one time and they asked me if I was Mexican. I said no. They said then why are you speaking with a Mexican accent. jajaja=hahaha So you're simple solution is to watch Mexican novelas. Also I have bought many Mexican novelas on DVD and I watch them.

Now if you live in Florida, New York or New Jersey you might want to speak with a Cuban/Puerto Rican or Dominican accent. Which would just happen if you lived there and were around those speakers.

That being said do not worry that you copy your ceceo speaking teacher for now. Actually you'll have no choice in the matter. We speak like or with the accent of the people we are around. The important thing is that you learn to understand and speak Spanish. The important thing is that you learn lots of Spanish words/vocabulary. (You need to learn how to conjugate Spanish verbs también.) I lived in Italy and learned to speak Italian. Then I learned Spanish. My Italian accent didn't last long. Acutally my Italian accent helped when I was around my friends from Argentina. They said I had a very good Argentine accent and all I did was speak Spanish with an Italian accent.

I was lucky because when I first started learning Spanish I found some audio CDs of people having converstations from different countries. Mexico, Cuba, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Bolivia and Colombia. There was this one converstation between two Colombian brothers. It was one of my favorites. I listened to that conversatation over and over again over 1,000 times. I got where I could imitate their accent perfectly. Then I met a guy from Colombia. He said I spoke just like the people from Colombia. Also I could imitate the accents of all the other countries just by listening to that CD over and over. One time I went to a Mexican party and right before I went I listened the converstations between Mexicans. At the party the Mexican people said I sounded like somebody from Mexico City.

When I went to school in Mexico in Guanajuato my favorite Mexican teacher was from another Mexican state but he had lived in Guanajuato for 9 years. He spoke with a mixture of his home state and the state of Guanajuato. I recorded his lectures and could imitate his voice perfectly.
Also I had lived in Guadalajara and Michoacan. Once a Mexican guy told me that he was trying to figure out from what part of Mexico I was from because my accent was a mixture of all of the accents I had been around. But he actually thought I was Mexican. One time I was speaking Italian to guy from Italy. I just imitated an accent from southern Italy I had heard and he said that I sounded like somebody from a place in southern Italy.

So accents can be learned like anything else. I'm from California and I have my California accent. My mother and realatives are from Arkansas and when I go to Arkansas I speak with a southern accent which is very different from how we speak in California.

Another interesting part to this story is my wife is Cuban. I can also speak with a Cuban accent.
My wife however went to a Mexican school for 5 years and watches Mexican novelas so she
can speak with a Mexican accent. People are always saying she doesn't sound Cuban.
The other reason for that is that she is from a different part of Cuba that has a very
different accent from the Cuban accent of La Habana the capital of Cuba. Yes, even in
Cuba the accents are different depending in what part of Cuba one comes from.

[Zarnium]

So you're basically saying I should listen to and watch Mexican media to get exposure to a Mexican accent, but I should probably copy my teacher's accent for now since I'm going to pick it up to some degree anyway? That's sort of what I thought.

EDIT: Also, what exactly would you say are the hallmarks of a Peninsular accent Vs. Mexican besides the ceceo? My impression thus far is that it sounds a lot less staccato and more fluid, and the d sound is less sharp. That's based mainly on comparing some Spanish-language songs I've been listening to though, so I don't know if it's just a difference in singing style.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

So you're basically saying I should listen to and watch Mexican media to get exposure to a Mexican accent, but I should probably copy my teacher's accent for now since I'm going to pick it up to some degree anyway? That's sort of what I thought.

You got it. Actually yo penso/I think that it is better to learn Spanish from somebody that has a marked accent than from somebody who doesn't. What you want to avoid is speaking with an American English accent. Learning from somebody that has a very marked accent will help you loose your English language accent. Does that make sense?

Remember that Spanish is spoken in the front of the mouth while English is spoken in the back of the mouth. This will make more sense to you as time goes on and you learn more Spanish. This is true of the Italian language also. Learn the Spanish vowels and you will have the Italian vowels which are exactly the same as the Spanish vowels. So if in the future you were to learn Italian you would already have the Italian vowels down plus the idea of Italian being spoken in the front of the mouth like Spanish is. Finding out that Spanish and Italian are spoken in the front of the mouth and English in the back of the mouth was a real revelation for me and helped me so much in my speaking of Spanish and Italian and in teaching the two languages.

[Zarnium]

Originally Posted by Villa

You got it. Actually yo penso/I think that it is better to learn Spanish from somebody that has a marked accent than from somebody who doesn't. What you want to avoid is speaking with an American English accent. Learning from somebody that has a very marked accent will help you loose your English language accent. Does that make sense?

Yup. I already had the same thought.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

Yup. I already had the same thought.

Sounds like you're going to do just fine Zarnium. Learning the Spanish language is an adventure. It opens us up to another exciting different world. Whatever you do don't stop learning the Spanish language.

I have something for you to help your Spanish accent but I don't know if I should give it to you here or start a new thread so everybody gets it.
¿Qué dices? What do you think? I could also send it to you in a private message también/also.

[Zarnium]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean? Is there some reason why you'd only want me to see it?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Zarnium: If you are just starting, speak just the way your teachers do. Over time, when you can identify regional varieties, you can choose the one you like the most, or the one you are most familiar with.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

I'm not entirely sure what you mean? Is there some reason why you'd only want me to see it?

I just sent it to you. I'll do a post on it so everybody gets it.
It's a little song/poem that most native speakers know and
helps non-Spanish speakers with their Spanish accent and to
loose their English accent.

Originally Posted by Zarnium

EDIT: Also, what exactly would you say are the hallmarks of a Peninsular accent Vs. Mexican besides the ceceo? My impression thus far is that it sounds a lot less staccato and more fluid, and the d sound is less sharp. That's based mainly on comparing some Spanish-language songs I've been listening to though, so I don't know if it's just a difference in singing style.

This is very interesting question and something we have been talking about in the last few days on the forum especially with a new member we have on the forum that is from Sevilla, Spain and says he does not speak with the ceceo/lisp. He just yesterday said that most Spanish speakers in Spain don't speak with the ceceo which was news to me. I told him I was watching a movie from Spain and he said be careful because Spanish movies use the ceceo. I thought that was funny. There is rivary in every Spanish speaking country. Even in the little country of Cuba there is a big rival between speakers from different parts of the country/island.

But to answer your question it's mostly about the choice of different words and idiomas. I have a book on this and will consult it. Just for example I remember reading in this book that in Mexico they use the verb comenzar/to start more than the word empezar/to start and in Spain they use empezar. This is only one example. In Mexico they clearly have and use the word empezar but comenzar seems to be heard the most. When I watch movies from Spain I can identify with many of their expressions because they are the same ones my Cuban wife uses. Also the profanity from Spain is similar to the profanity words of Cuba. Mexico uses different profanity words. For another example in Spain and Cuba they use the word m*erda a lot(excriment) which is clearly understood in Mexico but not used so much. This is all very interesante and we will continue this conversation. Oh, I have some French friends and they also use that word. It's kind of a European thing I guess plus we use it a lot in American English. Oh s**t!

[Zarnium]

I got your messages, thanks.

I find it strange how many different accents there are in other countries in such a relatively small geographical area; compare, say, England to the American midwest. They're a roughly equal area, but the midwest doesn't have much accent variation, while English accents can change significantly just because of what side of a single city you're from. So I'm told, anyway.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

I got your messages, thanks.

I find it strange how many different accents there are in other countries in such a relatively small geographical area; compare, say, England to the American midwest. They're a roughly equal area, but the midwest doesn't have much accent variation, while English accents can change significantly just because of what side of a single city you're from. So I'm told, anyway.

When I was in the Army we had people from all over the U.S. from just about every state. I learned a lot about dialects/accents in the U.S. then. I had four black room mates and other black friends and learned about black
ebonics which is very similar to the dialect my mother spoke from Arkansas. When I go to Mexico I have less
cultural shock than when I go to Arkansas. I never knew my mother and father had a southern accent until I
was older and people started pointing out to me. In school I would speak one dialect and at home and when I
went to Arkansas I would speak another dialect/accent. The dialect/accent of California is as different as night
and day compared to the Arkansas accent. Add to this the rural accents of Arkansas and you really see a difference.
Mississippi and Alabama even more so especially in the rural/small town areas. Have a friend from Mississippi
and I love to hear her talk. There are people from Louisiana that speak English with a southern French accent.
And Zarnium, have you ever seen the movie Fargo?

The most thorough and systematically-defined classification of American dialects we have to date can be found in the Atlas of North American English by Labov et al. Even though the overarching geographic classifications ignore some important regional dialects due to insufficient data in the survey (e.g. New Orleans & Cajun), each region can be demarcated by a bundle of linguistic isoglosses. The boundaries shown below are not precise because of the ambitious undertaking it would require to collect and analyze enough geographic data (the project that led to this atlas lasted over a decade). Hopefully, collaboration between dialectologists working in various regions of America will eventually yield more exact dialect definitions.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/gener...#ixzz2dxW6Gwzg

[Liquinn3]

There's a guy that I've spoke to that works at this restaurant about 20 minutes away from here. He speaks so clearly, he's from Argentina. Yet someone I spoke to Monday dislikes the Argentina accent.

I do like the Spain accent very much too. I've not yet spoke to anyone from Mexico. I guess it depends on your preference.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Liquinn3

There's a guy that I've spoke to that works at this restaurant about 20 minutes away from here. He speaks so clearly, he's from Argentina. Yet someone I spoke to Monday dislikes the Argentina accent.

I do like the Spain accent very much too. I've not yet spoke to anyone from Mexico. Do you have channels
in Spanish in England/Britain? We have many in California. Channel 22, 34, 46, 52, 54, 56.2, 62, 28.2 28.4
y hay más. Y estos son solo los canales gratis en español. Lo siento mucho por ti amigo mio.
I guess it depends on your preference.

El nuevo Papa habla con acento argentino.
Pues, él es de Argentina.

[Zarnium]

Question: Is there a significant difference in how "j" is pronounced in different accents? My teacher pronounces it pretty strongly, but I saw a video of someone from Mexico say it with much less force, more like an English h.

[Rusty]

This is apparently the case, yes. I've heard it pronounced both of the ways you have and in between. You can adopt the one you like best, but if you want to fit in, you'll pronounce it the way everyone around you does.
In Central America, it is pronounced forcefully. The 'g', when followed by 'e' or 'i', is also pronounced the same way.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Zarnium

Question: Is there a significant difference in how "j" is pronounced in different accents? My teacher pronounces it pretty strongly, but I saw a video of someone from Mexico say it with much less force, more like an English h.

Primium one of our forum members just posted a thread in the
General Chat section near the bottom of the forum. It's called
the Pronunciation of the "S" and it's a video of a man from Spain
explaining in Spanish how they pronounce the letter "S" but he also
explains very well how they pronounce the letter "J" and "G". It's very
harsh like rolling the letter "J" and the "G" in the throat. In the U.S. the
native speakers of Spanish from New Mexico speak with this harsh "J".
New Mexico has people that are descendants from the original Spanish
settlers from Spain. New Mexico did not become a state of the U.S. until
1912. My girlfriend from New Mexico spoke with that harsh "J" sound.

[Premium]

People from Madrid tend to exagurate the "J" sound. I found an article where the person explains the differences between the accent from Madrid and let's say "standard American accent", even the little ones such as choice of words. I"ll add it later on.

EDIT: http://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diale..._septentrional

It isn't the article I was looking for but this should be useful too.
I'll keep looking for you tomorrow.

[tetsuo]

I need to get used to this accent used by the guy Raúl in this video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/spanish/mividaloca/ep17/
Especially when they are going to the station to drive with el guagua. Some of the letters are very silently spoken and hard to understand when you are not used to it.

[Zarnium]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You can adopt the one you like best, but if you want to fit in, you'll pronounce it the way everyone around you does.

Eh... not quite that simple for me, because there are so few Spanish-speaking people where I live. I'm trying to copy my teacher's east-central Spain accent because I hear it the most often, and because I don't want to spend time thinking about "standard" pronunciations during lessons. If she says "atenthión," I'd rather just copy her instead of mentally replacing the th with an s. Plus, I want to at least attempt to sound like a native speaker of some kind rather than having a generic American accent.

It's not the way the students in the Spanish club talk, though, and I get the feeling they think my way of speaking is a bit ridiculous. They're way more into Latin America. However, I don't want to try to copy the pronunciation of anyone who's not a native speaker. (And really, they're not mean or standoffish or anything. I'm just a little concerned that picking up a funny accent will be a barrier, they all sort of chuckle when I say something like "grathias.")

What exactly are the big no-nos for English speakers as far as pronunciation goes? From observing the other students and comparing them to my teacher, beyond the ceceo difference, they seem to:

-pronounce d's very sharply, without much or any of a the sound.
-pronounce vowels as distinct syllables instead of running them together. (Together with the previous one, they tend to say "ah-dee-os" instead of "athyos" like my teacher says, and like my textbook says to.)
-Pronounce j's exactly like an English h. (A guy from Guatemala, the only native speaker in the group did this too, so I'm thinking that that the strength of the j sound isn't that consistent across accents.)
-Pronounce v's and b's exactly like an English b.

Not that I'm knocking them; their vocabulary and word choice appears to be excellent, and native Spanish-speaking people are obviously able to understand them just fine. I know there's a very wide range of native pronunciation too.

[Rusty]

You should mimic the pronunciation you hear the most.

Very few Spanish consonants are pronounced like the English consonants. The consonants 'b' and 'v' are indistinguishable in most regions. However, there are two different sounds made for these consonants depending on where they appear in a word.
Blending vowel sounds is done all the time. You correctly pronounce adiós, according to what I can tell from what you scripted.
The consonant 'j' has varying pronunciation. You should mimic your teacher's pronunciation, since you have chosen to do that with other consonants. In Central America, the 'j' is raspy, almost guttural. The 'g', when followed by the vowels 'e' or 'i' is pronounced exactly the same as the 'j'.
You've noted the softening of the 'd' when it appears between vowels. This also occurs with 'b' and 'v'. Say a 'b' sound, but don't close your lips completely.
The 'r' is nothing like the American English 'r'. Mimic your teacher.
The 'p' and the 't' are not plosive in Spanish. Neither is the 'q' (the 'k' sound).
There are other differences, too. As I said, there are only a couple of Spanish consonants that are pronounced like our English consonants.
You've noticed the major no-nos. Keep listening. Keep mimicking.