dialogue homework

[starkrystudent]

hi,
i am learning spanish in high school, and need some help with this.
Fill in the missing words.
Midday in a restaurant
Camarero ?Va a ______,senor?
Sr. Marcano Si,______la sopa del dia, una_____mixta y pollo tambien.
Camarero ?Y para beber?
Sr. Marcano Un_______de naranja, por________
Camarero A la orden.

Thanks

[Rusty]

Hi, and welcome to the forums.

We are happy to help, but don't do your homework for you. Do you need help understanding some of the words? Are there pictures or other hints given in the book that help you figure out what goes in the blanks? Give this assignment your best shot, and don't be afraid to ask questions after you've studied things out and are stumped.

[Alfonso]

Of course, I agree with Rusty. But there is something that catches my eye. What a poor dialogue! I understand Starkrystudent asking for some help. I have also suffered from this kind of dialogue when learning English.

• First of all, why does the camarero ask what is obvious?
• Secondly, why in a basic Spanish dialogue is it necessary to use a future form?
• Moreover, how many plates is Sr Marcano having as a meal?
• And who in the Spanish culture has Un _______ de naranja to drink in a meal?
• And, last but not least, where is that waiter who answers A la orden?

Too many mistakes for only five sentences. I see Starkrystudent doesn't have the opportunity to choose, but for those who have, please choose the right method when learning a language.

Please, feel free to correct any mistake.

[sosia]

poor Starkry, so an awful dialogue, like Alfonso says. Poli¡s right, we can't make your homework, you must first try and give us your guesses.
I give you some hints of a normal conversation
-¿Qué tomará el señor?"
- Quiero una sopa y el pollo con ensalada mixta
-¿Y para beber?
- Vino de la casa, por favor
- marchando

I have give you 3 of 5. Now you have passed!

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Of course, I agree with Rusty. But there is something that catches my eyes. What a poor dialogue! I understand Starkrystudent asks for some help. I have already suffered from this kind of dialogues when learning English.

• First of all, why Camarero asks what is obvious?
• Secondly, why in a basic Spanish dialogue it's necessary to use a future form?
• Moreover, how many plates is Sr Marcano having as a meal?
• And who in the Spanish culture has Un _______ de naranja to drink in a meal?
• And, last but not least, where is that waiter who answers A la orden?

Too much mistakes for only five sentences. I see Starkrystudent has not the opportunity to choose, but for those who have, please choose right the method you are learning a language.

Feel free to correct any mistake.

Alfonso,
Temo que corrijo inglés mejor que hablo/escribo español, por eso haga caso del siguiente: Usa "something catches my eye" en lugar de "something catches my eyes" asi la gente le entiende mejor.
En vez de "this kind of dialogues" usa "these kinds of dialogues"
o "this kind of dialogue". Recuerde que(igual al español) los pronombres tienen que estar de acuerdo con los nombres.


Poli

Sosia y Alfonso,

Lo siguiente es una(o alguna? o unos datos?) información que el dialogo malo me hizo recordar:
En este lado del océano se usa jugo en lugar de zumo. "Jugo de naranja"
por ejemplo. Zumo refiere al vapor que sale de la naranja y otras frutas
cítricas quando quita su piel.
Hablando de vino de la casa: Casera no se vende aquí, y por eso nosotros los americanos (norte y sudamericanos) tenemos que sufrir
cuando tomamos vino malo. Si conoce un negociante, puede tener mucho
exito exportando gaseosa ya que la recesión fuerza la gente tomar vino
mas agrio.



Poli

Al resto del forum,
En ningun modo quiero excluirles. Casera es una marca de una bebida llamada gaseosa que nunca vi afuera de españa. Parece agua con gas (agua seltzer) pero con pocas borbullas, un poquito endulcido y con un saborcito de limon. Es una bebida que cuando añadida al vino acido o amargo mejora el sabor. Típicamente está incluido en un almuerzo completo (menu del día) en españa.
Saludos a todos

I am trying to improve my communication skills in Spanish. Please feel
free to correct me. Thanks.

[Jane]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Of course, I agree with Rusty. But there is something that catches my eye. What a poor dialogue! I understand Starkrystudent asking for some help. I (had) suffered from this kind of dialogue when (I was) learning English.

• First of all, why does the Camarero ask what is obvious?
• Secondly, why in a basic Spanish dialogue is it necessary to use a future form?
• Moreover, how many plates is Sr Marcano having as a meal?
• And who in the Spanish culture has Un _______ de naranja to drink in a meal?
• And, last but not least, where is that waiter who answers A la orden?

Too many mistakes for only five sentences. I see Starkrystudent doesn´t have the opportunity to choose, but for those who have, please choose the right method when (you are) learning a language.

Feel free to correct any mistake.

I´m not a good authourity in Spanish language so I can´t help Starkrystudent.
However I´ve got some more corrections for Alfonso in addition to Poli´s.

[Alfonso]

Thanks a lot, Poli and Jane, for your corrections. I will edit my post to hide them .

Anyway, I have a question to ask.

Why can I not say S. has not the opportunity..., instead of saying S. doesn't have or S. hasn't got? Maybe it is just because it is that way. OK, I will understand, but I was positive I could say I have not, as well as I am not. Am I wrong?

[poli]

Alfonso,
Technically you are correct; however, "have not" sounds very forceful (as in a grandiose speech) or theatrical (as in Shakespeare).

An example of saying "have not" more commonly would be:
"Have you stolen(or did take) money from the cash register?" said the store manager.
"I have not.", said the clerk (emphatically).
The clerk could have also said, "I haven't"(less emphatically) or "I didn't"(less emphatically) or "no" or I did not (most emphatically).

Poli

[Alfonso]

Muchas gracias, Poli, por tu explicación. Me queda muy claro.
Ahí van algunas correcciones para ti:

Originally Posted by poli

Alfonso,
Me temo que corrijo inglés mejor que hablo/escribo español (pero yo diría: me temo que corregir inglés se me da mejor que hablar español), por eso, preste atención a lo siguiente: Use "something catches my eye" en lugar de "something catches my eyes" asi la gente le entiende mejor.
En vez de "this kind of dialogues" use "these kinds of dialogues"
o "this kind of dialogue". Recuerde que (al igual que en español) los pronombres concuerdan con los nombres.

(En el anterior párrafo has alternado el tratamiento de usted con el tratamiento de tú. Personalmente, prefiero que me trates de tú, como hago yo contigo, pero, obviamente, se trata de corregir lo que no es coherente en el texto. Si empiezas con usted, mantén el usted, ¿vale?)

Poli

Sosia y Alfonso,

Lo siguiente es una información / un dato que el mal diálogo me hizo recordar:
En este lado del océano se usa jugo en lugar de zumo. "Jugo de naranja"
por ejemplo. Zumo se refiere al vapor que sale de la naranja y otras frutas
cítricas quando se les quita la piel.
Hablando de vino de la casa: La Casera no se vende aquí, y por eso nosotros los americanos (norte y sudamericanos) tenemos que sufrir
cuando tomamos vino malo. Si conoce un negociante/empresario, puede tener mucho éxito exportando gaseosa, ya que la recesión fuerza a la gente a tomar vino más agrio.



Poli

Al resto del forum,
En ningun modo quiero excluirles. La Casera es una marca de una bebida gaseosa que nunca vi fuera de españa. Parece agua con gas (agua seltzer) pero con pocas burbujas, un poquito endulzada y con un saborcito a limón. Es una bebida que cuando se añade al vino ácido o amargo mejora el sabor. Normalmente está incluida en un almuerzo completo (menu del día) en España.
Saludos a todos

I am trying to improve my communication skills in Spanish. Please feel
free to correct me. Thanks.

[sosia]

I think here is "Un refresco de naranja". It can be a "zumo de naraja", but that's more usual for breakfast. (and using "jugo" sounds strange, we use "jugo" for potions)
I mistaked poli for Rusty
good explanition poli (have not) thanks
greetings

[Elaina]

You guys are so technical!!

It is a simple exercise in Spanish to see if the student is grasping the idea of what is going on, midday, in a restaurant. He probably has been learning some words and he needs to use them in a sentence (fill in the blank)

With all the "technical mumbo jumbo" you guys have dished out, starskystudent is probably more confused now!

He is the student, he didn't write the dialogue and he appropriately asked for help.

Elaina

[Alfonso]

Where is any technical explanation referring to starkystudent's dialogue?

There were only an advice to do it by himself before asking for some help. Rusty was clear. Nobody is going to do your homework so easily.

After that, I criticised the exercise because I don't think it fits what it's supposed to fit. That is another discussion in the same thread, like it happens in a lot of forums, this one included.

Sosia proposed a real dialogue to substitute the one starkystudent wrote, and Poli added a superb example of usage of have not. There were also some correction's interchanges.

Anyway, let's listen to starkystudent's opinion. Maybe now he's studying Polish.

Of course, any disagreement will be welcome,
as well as any correction.

[sosia]

Elaina, you're a litlle right, the thread has a little desviation.
poor starkrystudent must be now learning Polish.
But if he tried a little bit, he would have recieved a proper answer (please correct this sentence )

[canyonff]

Midday in a restaurant
Camarero: ?Va a ______,senor?
Sr. Marcano: Si,______la sopa del dia, una_____mixta y pollo tambien.
Camarero: ?Y para beber?
Sr. Marcano: Un_______de naranja, por________

Camarero A la orden.

I don't see where a future tense is needed anywhere in this dialogue. You're probably thinking "I'll have," but I believe the responce is "I want." though either is "correct", due to the simplicity of the the dialougg, for this exercize I'm assuming the writer didn't expect the students to know anything but the indicativo presente.

as for "un ____de naranja" it's most likely refrescos as that's what we were made to say when I was in school, and was probably one of Starkrystudents vocabulary words for the day/week.

[Alfonso]

Good point, Canyoff!

If you expect that your student knows presente de indicativo you are focusing the teaching in grammar. That's the point: then, your student has got to answer as you say, with quiero which is not a very polite way of asking for the meal in a restaurant. It's better to say tomaré, quisiera, quería, voy a tomar..., etc.

You can learn presente de indicativo and think that you can use it in a lot of contexts. Wrong. You're producing very unrealistic dialogues. To learn to speak Spanish you will have to do double effort because you started wrongly. That is why I feel sorry because of Starkystudent's dialogue. Unfortunately, there are millions of dialogues like this one.

Nowadays, languages teaching doesn't focus on grammar, but in context, in communicative situations. If you analyse the situation and give your student the right choices to be autosufficient in it, you'll have medium way already done.

Un refresco de naranja is possible, of course, but it's much more common una fanta de naranja, or, simply, una naranja. This is the other point that makes the dialogue so unrealistic. Moreover, the combination of the food and the answer of the waiter, who seems to be a soldier. No way.

Corrections are welcomed

[canyonff]

LOL @ the soldier comment.

I agree with the dubious nature of the conversation, personally I feel it's better to memorize phrases, THEN go back to learn why you're saying what you're saying.

I was also going to say earlier that it could also be "un poco de naranja..." as in "un poco mas de pan." However, to me, that sounds too unnatural to say when you're first asking for something.


p.s.

Was it incorrect to say indicativo presente? I know it's formally written in spanish as "presente del indicativo," but in the way I used it I thought el indicativo presente was acceptable.

[Alfonso]

I think presente de indicativo as much as presente de subjuntivo or pretérito perfecto de indicativo... is the proper and simple way to refer to a verbal tense. First the tense, and then el modo (I don't know what to call this in English, maybe mode?).

However, there are some grammar books that reverse the order, and write indicativo presente. It's OK, but I think it's more technical than the other way, and in talking Spanish is much more common to say presente de indicativo.

I agree with you, Canyonff, If you ask a waiter for un poco de naranja, he or she will stare at you, pen down, and will ask you: wouldn't you prefer the whole orange? . Jokes apart, most of the waiters will understand you, but it doesn't mean it's proper Spanish.

Nevertheless, I think communication is the first goal. Afterwards, it's accuracy. So, don't get paralysed because you are not sure if you're speaking properly. At least, you're speaking.

[canyonff]

...then el modo (I don't know what to call this in English, maybe mode?).


close, the word we use is actually 'mood.' They are pretty much the same as the spanish moods and refer to the mood, or state, of the speaker. Indicative, imperative, subjunctive, infinitive.

[Alfonso]

Thanks a lot for the word, Canyoff!
However, I don't think infinitive is a mood.
In the case of imperative, I know there are some grammarians that distinguish it from indicative. For me, this distinction doesn't make sense.
Most of the grammarians only accepts two moods in most of the western languages, Spanish included: indicative and subjunctive.
In the case of English, it's often stated to exist three moods: indicative, subjunctive and imperative.