Foreign Language Requirements

[abrink]

¿Qué piensan de requisitos para estudiantes tomar un idioma extraño? Personalmente pienso si no quiere aprender un idioma, no va a aprenderlo. Muchas escuelas secundarias tienen requisitos para estudiantes tomar un idioma extraño. También muchas universidades tienen requisitos para unas carreras tomar un idioma extraño. No estoy de acuerdo. Pienso aprendiendo un idioma es una cosa bonita, pero no pienso requisitos aprender uno es una buena idea.

Ahora en inglés porque yo sé hay probablemente muchas errores encima de esto. Me gusta si ustedes corrigen, por favor!

I really don't think requiring students to take a foreign language is a good idea. My personal experience is that students that don't want to be in a foreign language classroom bring the overall experience of the class down. Most students have no interest in learning another language, and forcing them to sit through 3 foreign language classes in order to graduate is not going to make them do so. I firmly believe that foreign language learning is a great and beautiful thing, but for many students, it's seen as an unnecessary hassle. What do you all think?

I think introducing foreign languages to students at a young age is a good idea, but I do not think requiring them to take the classes later on is a good idea. If someone would be so kind as to correct my Spanish above I'd greatly appreciate it!

[chileno]

To me it has to do with formation and education. It is real "mind opener", so yes, I think it is good that students are required to take at least one foreign language, especially one of the 5 official UN languages.

[Premium]

Originally Posted by abrink

¿Qué piensan de requisitos para estudiantes tomar un idioma extraño? Personalmente pienso si no quiere aprender un idioma, no va a aprenderlo. Muchas escuelas secundarias tienen requisitos para estudiantes tomar un idioma extraño. También muchas universidades tienen requisitos para unas carreras tomar un idioma extraño. No estoy de acuerdo. Pienso aprendiendo un idioma es una cosa bonita, pero no pienso requisitos aprender uno es una buena idea.

Ahora en inglés porque yo sé hay probablemente muchas errores encima de esto. Me gusta si ustedes corrigen, por favor!

I really don't think requiring students to take a foreign language is a good idea. My personal experience is that students that don't want to be in a foreign language classroom bring the overall experience of the class down. Most students have no interest in learning another language, and forcing them to sit through 3 foreign language classes in order to graduate is not going to make them do so. I firmly believe that foreign language learning is a great and beautiful thing, but for many students, it's seen as an unnecessary hassle. What do you all think?

I think introducing foreign languages to students at a young age is a good idea, but I do not think requiring them to take the classes later on is a good idea. If someone would be so kind as to correct my Spanish above I'd greatly appreciate it!

I totally agree with you. When i was in middle school, i had no interest in learning another language. After my graduation, my English was horrific. One day from another, i was totally eager to learn English for no reason. I buyed some movies and started to watch them in English.
It is absolutely necessary to have at least one foreign language in school. Any another should be tought if they sign up for it voluntarily.

[pjt33]

I'll leave the corrections for a native speaker because the changes I would suggest may be larger than necessary to err on the side of caution, although I will comment that the English think would IMO be better translated here by opinar; that the English participle -ing is usually translated by an infinitive; and that I thought you were talking about pre-requisites for studying languages rather than an obligation to study them.

Language lessons aren't just about learning language: they're also about learning culture, which I think chileno's answer hinted at. It's probably a general observation that most people aren't very interested in learning about other cultures, but are happy to stick with crude stereotypes; and in Anglophone countries most people don't see the point of learning other languages. So motivating people in the US or the UK to learn foreign languages is quite hard.

Even if you start them young, a good motivation helps. My nephew and niece have a small incentive to learn Spanish so that they can use it when they visit their uncle in Spain, but to really want to learn it they'd need friends who speak it as a first language.

I think that it's good to make people do lots of subjects at school for a couple of years so that they have opportunity to find out what they enjoy and what they're good at. And I also think that foreign languages have a hidden benefit in helping you understand your native language - in English lessons when I was in my mid-teens, the six hands which went up for every question about grammar belonged to the six people who were studying Latin. But that's a hard sell.

There are some subjects which are considered essential: everyone should learn basic maths and a certain level of skill in an official language of their country of residence. It's an interesting question as to whether foreign languages should be classed in this category.

As a final note, the US college system is quite unusual in insisting that everyone take subjects which are in no wise connected to their focus of study. The experience of other countries would tend to demonstrate that it's not necessary.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by pjt33

I'llThere are some subjects which are considered essential: everyone should learn basic maths and a certain level of skill in an official language of their country of residence. It's an interesting question as to whether foreign languages should be classed in this category..

My own view is that learning a foreign language enhances the understanding of your own mother tongue. This effect is sufficient in itself to justify the effort.

But my view on everything seems to be a minority view.

[chileno]

By the way, when was in school, I also thought it was boring to take English and French. Little did I know I was going to live in another country.

[Emberblaque]

Originally Posted by Premium

I totally agree with you. When I was in middle school, I had no interest in learning another language. After my graduation, my English was horrific. From one day to another, I was totally eager to learn English for no reason. I bought some movies and started to watch them in English.
It is absolutely necessary to have at least one foreign language in school. Any another should be taught if they sign up for it voluntarily.

Originally Posted by pjt33

I'll leave the corrections for a native speaker because the changes I would suggest may be larger than necessary to err on the side of caution, although I will comment that the English think would IMO be better translated here by opinar; that the English participle -ing is usually translated by an infinitive; and that I thought you were talking about pre-requisites for studying languages rather than an obligation to study them.

Language lessons aren't just about learning language: they're also about learning culture, which I think chileno's answer hinted at. It's probably a general observation that most people aren't very interested in learning about other cultures, but are happy to stick with crude stereotypes; and in Anglophone countries most people don't see the point of learning other languages. So motivating people in the US or the UK to learn foreign languages is quite hard.

Even if you start them young, a good motivation helps. My nephew and niece have a small incentive to learn Spanish so that they can use it when they visit their uncle in Spain, but to really want to learn it they'd need friends who speak it as a first language.

I think that it's good to make people do lots of subjects at school for a couple of years so that they have opportunity to find out what they enjoy and what they're good at. And I also think that foreign languages have a hidden benefit in helping you understand your native language - in English lessons when I was in my mid-teens, the six hands which went up for every question about grammar belonged to the six people who were studying Latin. But that's a hard sell.

There are some subjects which are considered essential: everyone should learn basic maths and a certain level of skill in an official language of their country of residence. It's an interesting question as to whether foreign languages should be classed in this category.

As a final note, the US college system is quite unusual in insisting that everyone take subjects which are in no wise connected to their focus of study. The experience of other countries would tend to demonstrate that it's not necessary.

I agree absolutely that knowledge of a foreign language improves one's knowledge of one's own language. Once I was frustrated with people that would distinguish between the appropriate usage of pronouns, or mention errors in verb usage. The most frequently mentioned errors are confusion of the words "who" and "whom," "who's" and "whose," "me" and "I," and incorrect usage of the verbs "to lie" and "to lay." Now I cannot imagine making those mistakes with my improved understanding of grammar in general, be it English or Spanish.

I didn't know that the U.S. university system was unique in that regard. It has always seemed to me that not only many, but in fact the majority, of the classes one is required to take are what one would describe as filler.

[Premium]

Originally Posted by Emberblaque

I agree absolutely that knowledge of a foreign language improves one's knowledge of one's own language. Once I was frustrated with people that would distinguish between the appropriate usage of pronouns, or mention errors in verb usage. The most frequently mentioned errors are confusion of the words "who" and "whom," "who's" and "whose," "me" and "I," and incorrect usage of the verbs "to lie" and "to lay." Now I cannot imagine making those mistakes with my improved understanding of grammar in general, be it English or Spanish.

I didn't know that the U.S. university system was unique in that regard. It has always seemed to me that not only many, but in fact the majority, of the classes one is required to take are what one would describe as filler.

Thank you very much for the corrections. I don't know why I wrote buyed instead of bought, or "any another". I didn't know that "I" is written big, now i know better.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Premium

I didn't know that "I" is written big, now i know better.

[Emberblaque]

Originally Posted by Premium

Thank you very much for the corrections. I don't know why I wrote buyed instead of bought, or "any another". I didn't know that "I" is written big, now i know better.

Certainly. I was surprised as well, because you have always given me the impression that your English is quite good. I forget easily that your mastery lies in many other languages more so than English.

[Premium]

Originally Posted by Rusty

That's just embarrassing.
I wish there was a smiley for that expression.

Originally Posted by Emberblaque

Certainly. I was surprised as well, because you have always given me the impression that your English is quite good. I forget easily that your mastery lies in many other languages more so than English.

My English isn't quite fluent yet.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Premium

That's just embarrassing.
I wish there was a smiley for that expression.

There is!

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by Emberblaque

I didn't know that the U.S. university system was unique in that regard. It has always seemed to me that not only many, but in fact the majority, of the classes one is required to take are what one would describe as filler.

My degree was quite unusual in the UK in that a nominal 1/6 of it was not part of what you would call my major (computer science), although it was in not-so-unrelated fields (maths and physics). The UK makes students specialise quite early relative to other countries: it used to be that at the age of 16 you dropped down to three subjects, which would typically be related; now I believe the standard is to drop down to four or five subjects and refine that to three at 17. Then the majority of university courses consist solely of a major with no other subjects at all.

Most of Europe specialises a bit later, but still at 16 there is some level of specialisation (either arts or sciences). Latin Americans, is it similar there?

The US education system, on the other hand, seems to promote polymathy and expect everyone to study some arts and some science subjects as part of a bachelor's degree.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by abrink

¿Qué piensan de requisitos para estudiantes tomar un idioma extraño? Personalmente pienso si no quiere aprender un idioma, no va a aprenderlo. Muchas escuelas secundarias tienen requisitos para estudiantes tomar un idioma extraño. También muchas universidades tienen requisitos para unas carreras tomar un idioma extraño. No estoy de acuerdo. Pienso aprendiendo un idioma es una cosa bonita, pero no pienso requisitos aprender uno es una buena idea.

Ahora en inglés porque yo sé hay probablemente muchas errores encima de esto. Me gusta si ustedes corrigen, por favor!

I really don't think requiring students to take a foreign language is a good idea. My personal experience is that students that don't want to be in a foreign language classroom bring the overall experience of the class down. Most students have no interest in learning another language, and forcing them to sit through 3 foreign language classes in order to graduate is not going to make them do so. I firmly believe that foreign language learning is a great and beautiful thing, but for many students, it's seen as an unnecessary hassle. What do you all think?

I think introducing foreign languages to students at a young age is a good idea, but I do not think requiring them to take the classes later on is a good idea. If someone would be so kind as to correct my Spanish above I'd greatly appreciate it!

Por un lado, estoy de acuerdo contigo abrink, pero por el otro lado creo que todo el mundo debería tomar otro idioma. En los EE.UU., por ejemplo, hasta la década de 1950 casi todas las escuelas secundarias y universidades enseñaban la lengua latina. La razón de esto era que el aprendizaje del latín haría más fácil aprender otro idioma, especialmente las lenguas que provienen del latín como el español, el francés, el portugués, el italiano, rumania, catalan, etc, etc. También el aprendizaje de la lengua latina aumentará su vocabulario de inglés, ya que muchas palabras a nivel alto en inglés proceden del latín. Irónicamente una persona puede obtener todos estos beneficios del aprendizaje de la lengua latina mediante el aprendizaje del español. Sí, eso es correcto ya que el español en su mayoría proviene de la lengua latina. También aprender otro idioma te abre la mente a un mundo completamente nuevo.
Es como si estuvieras ciego y ahora puedes ver cosas que no podías ver antes. Como entrar en un otro diminsion.

Ahora bien, la parte en la que estoy de acuerdo contigo hasta cierto punto es por ejemplo es cuando asistí a mi primera clase de español en nuestra universidad local/community college y yo era la única persona en la clase que estaba realmente allí para aprender el español. Todos los demás estaban allí sólo para obtener el crédito. Lo sé porque hablaba con ellos fuera de la clase.

Originally Posted by chileno

To me it has to do with formation and education. It is real "mind opener", so yes, I think it is good that students are required to take at least one foreign language, especially one of the 5 official UN languages.

Originally Posted by pjt133

Language lessons aren't just about learning language: they're also about learning culture, which I think chileno's answer hinted at. It's probably a general observation that most people aren't very interested in learning about other cultures, but are happy to stick with crude stereotypes; and in Anglophone countries most people don't see the point of learning other languages. So motivating people in the US or the UK to learn foreign languages is quite hard.

Even if you start them young, a good motivation helps. My nephew and niece have a small incentive to learn Spanish so that they can use it when they visit their uncle in Spain, but to really want to learn it they'd need friends who speak it as a first language.

I think that it's good to make people do lots of subjects at school for a couple of years so that they have opportunity to find out what they enjoy and what they're good at. And I also think that foreign languages have a hidden benefit in helping you understand your native language - in English lessons when I was in my mid-teens, the six hands which went up for every question about grammar belonged to the six people who were studying Latin. But that's a hard sell.

There are some subjects which are considered essential: everyone should learn basic maths and a certain level of skill in an official language of their country of residence. It's an interesting question as to whether foreign languages should be classed in this category.

As a final note, the US college system is quite unusual in insisting that everyone take subjects which are in no wise connected to their focus of study. The experience of other countries would tend to demonstrate that it's not necessary.

Me gusta lo que están diciendo chileno y PJT y estoy de acuerdo con ellos.

Cuando yo iba a la universidad tuve que tomar un año y medio de otro idioma.
Tomé el español por supuesto. En ese momento yo estaba estudiando para ser maestro de educacion física.
Después de conseguir un trabajo como profesor fui a la escuela por la noche y recibí mi título en el español.
Tengo dos títulos. Double major.

Me pregunto cuáles son los requisitos para una segunda lengua ahora en las universidades de los EE.UU. Probablemente varía de estado a estado. ¿Qué pasa con Chile, Reino Unido y otros paises hablando de los requisitos por una segunda lengua en las universidades?

[abrink]

Originally Posted by Villa

Ahora bien, la parte en la que estoy de acuerdo contigo hasta cierto punto es por ejemplo es cuando asistí a mi primera clase de español en nuestra universidad local/community college y yo era la única persona en la clase que estaba realmente allí para aprender el español. Todos los demás estaban allí sólo para obtener el crédito. Lo sé porque hablaba con ellos fuera de la clase.

That's exactly what I mean. I don't think students get much out of a foreign language class unless they're in it for the right reason. I sit next to students in my classes who dread being there. I understand that learning languages is mind-opening to other cultures, but when a student doesn't really care about learning these things, it's been my experience that they usually don't. They'll study enough to pass a test, and that's about it.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by abrink

That's exactly what I mean. I don't think students get much out of a foreign language class unless they're in it for the right reason. I sit next to students in my classes who dread being there. I understand that learning languages is mind-opening to other cultures, but when a student doesn't really care about learning these things, it's been my experience that they usually don't. They'll study enough to pass a test, and that's about it.

Al igual que asistir a un curso de la Historia/History cuando alguien no está interesado en la Historia.
Yo por ejemplo, me gustan la historia y la geografía, pero no mucha gente les gusta la Historia o aún menos la Geografía. Tomé una clase de Historia Mexicana en San Miguel de Allende, Guanajuato, México y me encantó. No veia la hora de estar en la clase. Grabé todas las clases y escuchaba las grabaciones una y otra vez. Aprendí mucho y aprendí a hablar mejor el español. La gente dice que hablo como un profesor universitario. Todo porque me gustó la clase tanto. Es curioso que aprendí a hablar mejor con la clase de Historia que con la clase de conversación.

[abrink]

Originally Posted by Villa

Al igual que asistir a un curso de la Historia/History cuando alguien no está interesado en la Historia.
Yo por ejemplo, me gustan la historia y la geografía, pero no mucha gente les gusta la Historia o aún menos la Geografía. Tomé una clase de Historia Mexicana en San Miguel de Allende, Guanajuato, México y me encantó. No veia la hora de estar en la clase. Grabé todas las clases y escuchaba las grabaciones una y otra vez. Aprendí mucho y aprendí a hablar mejor el español. La gente dice que hablo como un profesor universitario. Todo porque me gustó la clase tanto. Es curioso que aprendí a hablar mejor con la clase de Historia que con la clase de conversación.

I think your last post stated that you weren't interested in a class in Mexican history, but because you had to take it, you actually developed an interest in it? My Spanish is far from perfect, but I believe I understand your message. That's a good point! The same kind of thing happened with me and a philosophy class. I definitely see your point. If requiring languages causes someone to develop an interest in it, I guess it is worth it after all. In your opinion, do you think there should be requirements in high school AND college? Personally, I now see that they would be acceptable in high school, but for college, I think students have a good enough idea if they'd like to learn a foreign language.