Práctica con "para" (Part Four)

[laepelba]

Creo que este está el último mensaje en la serie de "para".

Este tiempo, escribo oraciones de "para" en unos modismos. Por favor, (1) corrige el uso de "para", y (2) corrige todo lo demás.

#1) Estar para (to be about to)
- Tú estás para cerrar la puerta.
- Estoy para mirar televisión.
- Él está para correr.
(Or, are the last two sentences not correct because they indicate something that will be ongoing?)

#2) Para abajo (down, downward)
- Aquí es la loma. Vamos para abajo.
- El acelerador se ata para abajo.
(So would "para arriba" be upward in the same way?)

#3) Para adelante (forward) / Para detrás (backward)
- Yo ando para adelante en la cola.
- Yo ando para detrás en la cola. (Cuado alguien junta su amigo.)
- El auto va para adelante a la luz de tráfico.
- La vida está para detrás en ese pueblo. (Or does the "backward" necessarily refer only to physical motion?)

#4) Para entonces / Para esa épocha (by that time) - are these two phrases interchangeable? ¿Están estas expresiónes intercambiable?
- Para entonces, yo seré cana.
- Para esa épocha, yo seré cana.
- Para entonces, no estará importante. (¿O "será"?)
- Para esa épocha, no estará importante. (¿O "será"?)

#5) Para otra vez (for another occasion)
- Ese cubierto está para otra vez.
- Reservo el dinero para otra vez.

#6) Para siempre (forever)
- En la novela Tuck Everlasting, se vida para siempre.
- Pienso el dolor de cabeza está para siempre. (¿"está" o "es"?) (Is this a place for a subjunctive verb form?)

#7) Para variar (for a change)
- Para variar, llegaremos a tiempo. (¿Nunca ocurre en América Latina?)
- Yo caminé a trabajo, para variar.

#8) Ser tal para cual (to be two of a kind)
- Ella y su hermana son tal para cual.
- El maestro y el estudiante son tal para cual.

#9) Para bien o para mal (for better or for worse) - this from the Tomísimo "Idioms" section.
- Yo compraré esa casa, para bien o para mal.

#10) Para los bobos (for the birds, loosely translated...) - this from the Tomísimo "Idioms" section.
- Este libro está para los bobos.

(¿By the way ... would the title of this post be "Práctica con "para" (Parte cuatro)""?)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Creo que éste está es el último mensaje en la serie de "para".

Este tiempo Esta vez, escribo oraciones de con "para" en unos modismos. Por favor, (1) corrige el uso de "para", y (2) corrige todo lo demás.

[sorry about #1, I'm not familiar with "estar para" in that meaning... in Mexico we would use "estar por".]


#2) Para abajo (down, downward)
- Aquí es la loma. Vamos para abajo.
- El acelerador se ata? presiona para abajo.
(So would "para arriba" be upward in the same way?) Yes.
- "La palanca se jala para arriba" ("The lever is pulled upwards")


#3) Para adelante (forward) / Para detrás atrás (backward)
- Yo ando ("camino" would sound better) para adelante en la cola.
- Yo ando ("camino") para detrás atrás en la cola. (Cuado alguien junta su amigo.)?
- El auto va para adelante a ("con" if you're Mexican) la luz de tráfico.
- La vida está va para detrás atrás en ese pueblo. (Or does the "backward" necessarily refer only to physical motion?) No, it can be used in a metaphorical way too.

#4) Para entonces / Para esa épocha época (by that time) - are these two phrases interchangeable? ¿Están Son estas expresiones intercambiables? Pueden ser intercambiables, pero "para entonces" es un poco más frecuente.
- Para entonces, yo seré tendré canas.
- Para esa épocha época, yo tendré canas.
- Para entonces, no estará será importante. (¿O "será"?)
- Para esa épocha época, no estará será importante. (¿O "será"?)

#5) Para otra vez (for another occasion)
- Ese cubierto está para otra vez.
- Reservo el dinero para otra vez.

#6) Para siempre (forever)
- En la novela Tuck Everlasting, se vidavive para siempre.
- Pienso que el dolor de cabeza estáes para siempre. (¿"está" o "es"?) (Is this a place for a subjunctive verb form?) Not a subjunctive, but maybe future tense "pienso que el dolor de cabeza se quedará para siempre" = "I think the headache will stay forever". For a subjunctive you would have "temo que el dolor de cabeza se quede para siempre" = "I fear the headache will stay forever".

#7) Para variar (for a change)
- Para variar, llegaremos a tiempo. (¿Nunca ocurre en América Latina?)
Sí, pero sólo entre extranjeros
- Yo caminé al trabajo, para variar.

#8) Ser tal para cual (to be two of a kind)
- Ella y su hermana son tal para cual.
- El maestro y el estudiante son tal para cual.

#9) Para bien o para mal (for better or for worse) - this from the Tomísimo "Idioms" section.
- Yo compraré esa casa, para bien o para mal.

#10) Para los bobos (for the birds, loosely translated...) - this from the Tomísimo "Idioms" section.
- Este libro está es para los bobos.

(¿By the way ... would the title of this post be "Práctica con "para" (Parte cuatro)""?)
Personally, I would prefer saying: "primera parte", "segunda parte", "tercera parte", then it corresponds "cuarta parte"...
But I think it's correct to say: "parte I/uno", "parte II/dos", "parte III/tres", "parte IV/cuatro"...

Nice work, Lou Ann!

Comments above

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Nice work, Lou Ann!

Comments above

Thank you so much, Malila! I knew you'd come through for me.

Maybe Hernán can comment on #1. (Hernán? Where are you?)

So, about #2 - I meant to say that the pedal was stuck down. Does your rewrite give the same impression? It sounds more to me like you're saying "The pedal is stuck? Push down on it." Right?

About #3 - I meant to say that I moved backwards in the line when someone joined up with a friend ahead of me (forcing me back a place).

Also, in #3 and #4, I think it's interesting that you corrected the spellings of the phrases because I got them directly from a Spanish learning website - and just double checked. (By the way - I trust your corrections more than this other website.)

And, in #10 (and elsewhere here) - proof that, regardless of comments that I ought to avoid concentrating on grammar, I really need to work on ser and estar one of these days real soon.

I'll possibly post some sentences using "por" later today, as we're snow-bound. Gotta love staying in my PJ's all day!!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Creo que este está el último mensaje en la serie de "para".

Este tiempo, escribo oraciones de "para" en unos modismos. Por favor, (1) corrige el uso de "para", y (2) corrige todo lo demás.

#1) Estar para (to be about to)
- Tú estás para cerrar la puerta. ( I am a door opener ) Concierge?
- Estoy para mirar televisión. (Somebody is paying me para ver television)
- Él está para correr. ( He is the official runner of the 2009 Olympics)
(Or, are the last two sentences not correct because they indicate something that will be ongoing?)

(to be about to) estar por
(to be for) estar para

Ok, Luanita.

You have been doing ok, and contrary to the comment on comments (ad nauseum) You SHOULD be avoiding grammar. The concept is very simple.

Is there anything in grammar you do not know, in your language? I am sure there must be some pieces here and there, but for the most you are knowledgeable about your grammar. In other words you know how to express yourself correctly in your language.

Now, when exercising like in the above example, apparently the corrections are not enough , but you are trying on top of that to apply grammar to them, which you already know the english side. Let the spanish side to fit slowly and comfortably to your knowledge.

That's all.

BTW, if you do not understand my corrections/hints please ask some more.

Hernan.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

Ok, Luanita.

You have been doing ok, and contrary to the comment on comments (ad nauseum) You SHOULD be avoiding grammar. The concept is very simple.

Is there anything in grammar you do not know, in your language? I am sure there must be some pieces here and there, but for the most you are knowledgeable about your grammar. In other words you know how to express yourself correctly in your language.

Now, when exercising like in the above example, apparently the corrections are not enough , but you are trying on top of that to apply grammar to them, which you already know the english side. Let the spanish side to fit slowly and comfortably to your knowledge.

That's all.

BTW, if you do not understand my corrections/hints please ask some more.

Hernan.

Thank you, Hernán!

Okay, so apparently, the website where I pulled these idioms with "para" is incorrect about the "estar para" meaning "to be about to". I'll make it "por":
- Tú estás por cerrar la puerta.
- Estoy por ver televisión.
- Él está por correr.

My meaning was to be:
- You are about to close the door.
- I am about to watch television.
- He is about to go running.

Son correctos?

Actually, in English, I am constantly thinking about my grammar. I write and re-write e-mails and even posts here on Tomisimo and on some of the photography discussion forums to which I belong. I keep a "English Grammar" book next to my dictionary next to my computer. (No joke.) I'm frequently looking things up in the dictionary, grammar book, AND online to make sure that I understand sentence constructions.

El mundito de Luanita.........

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Thank you, Hernán!

You are more than welcome

Originally Posted by laepelba

Okay, so apparently, the website where I pulled these idioms with "para" is incorrect about the "estar para" meaning "to be about to". I'll make it "por":
- Tú estás por cerrar la puerta.
- Estoy por ver televisión.
- Él está por correr.

My meaning was to be:
- You are about to close the door.
- I am about to watch television.
- He is about to go running.

Son correctos?

Yes, they are correct, I made those corrections as to make you aware how you could use the para word. (presuppositories, I think they are called?)

Originally Posted by laepelba

Actually, in English, I am constantly thinking about my grammar. I write and re-write e-mails and even posts here on Tomisimo and on some of the photography discussion forums to which I belong. I keep a "English Grammar" book next to my dictionary next to my computer. (No joke.) I'm frequently looking things up in the dictionary, grammar book, AND online to make sure that I understand sentence constructions.

El mundito de Luanita.........

Start doing what I am telling you, else you are making your life miserable even in English!

[laepelba]

Not necessarily miserable. I'm what they call "type A" - it's more like I'm driven to focus on the tedious details. If I ignore the urge, that's when I become miserable. :P

[laepelba]

Another question for you both. Returning to #4.... can I use "canosa" for "grey-haired"? And is "canosa" used with "ser"?

Like so:
- Para entonces, yo seré canosa.
- Para esa época, yo seré canosa.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

[...]
Maybe Hernán can comment on #1. (Hernán? Where are you?)
I think Sosia, who lives in Spain, can help you out with the meaning of "being about to". For a Latin American, as Hernán's explanations have said, "estar para", is actually your function/job.

So, about #2 - I meant to say that the pedal was stuck down. Does your rewrite give the same impression? It sounds more to me like you're saying "The pedal is stuck? Push down on it." Right?
Aha! The verb you're looking for is "atorarse": "El pedal (del acelerador) se atora para abajo" ("The pedal stucks downwards"). I thought you meant how to activate the pedal... you have to push down on it = "tienes que presionarlo para abajo".

About #3 - I meant to say that I moved backwards in the line when someone joined up with a friend ahead of me (forcing me back a place).
Hmmm... "Alguien se metió en la cola" ("someone got into the queue" --without respecting it) => It might be something like "me empujaron para atrás en la cola".


Also, in #3 and #4, I think it's interesting that you corrected the spellings of the phrases because I got them directly from a Spanish learning website - and just double checked. (By the way - I trust your corrections more than this other website.)
Highly appreciated.

And, in #10 (and elsewhere here) - proof that, regardless of comments that I ought to avoid concentrating on grammar, I really need to work on ser and estar one of these days real soon.
*whispering* Don't listen to Hernáááán... study your graaamaaaarrr...


[...]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Another question for you both. Returning to #4.... can I use "canosa" for "grey-haired"? And is "canosa" used with "ser"?

Like so:
- Para entonces, yo seré canosa.
- Para esa época, yo seré canosa.

I think I would prefer "estaré canosa"...
Still, a little nuance: if I hear about someone "está canoso", it means they're young but have a lot of grey hairs... however the word "canas" by itself is immediately associated with age. (That's why I suggested "tendré canas").
"Un hombre/una mujer que (ya) peina canas" is an old person.
*"peinar canas" (it's an expression by itself) = "to comb grey hairs"

And a life lesson to estimate someone's age: "La cana engaña, el diente miente y la arruga desengaña" (≈"the Grey hair deceives, the tooth lies and the wrinkle reveals the truth").

[laepelba]

It all sounds great, Malila - thanks. If Sosia wants to comment, that's great. But as you know, I'm mostly interested in Latin American Spanish, so I'll go with "estar por" as "to be about to" ... I don't want to look like an American AND sound like a European all at the same time when I go to Lima!

(By the way - did I tell you that I am not coming to Mexico City in May? They've cancelled the conference due to lack of funds on the part of the attendees. Bummer! If I am able to make their rescheduled conference (whenever that may be), I'll definitely let you know and see if we can meet for coffee or something!)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I know the feeling about mixing language variations... my English limps due to American and British differences I have never been able to discern.

...But I think you'll be well understood in Lima.

It's a shame that the trip to Mexico has been cancelled, but as my grandfather used to say: "hay más tiempo que vida" -> there will be another chance.

[laepelba]

Brits speak "proper" English (according to them). Yankees, er, um, Americans speak "lesser" English. (According to the Brits.) I had more difficulty understanding the British speaking (their) English in London than I had understanding the French and the Danes in their respective countries when they were speaking English to me on a trip I made to Europe a few years ago. If you ever have questions about the differences, feel free to ask.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I have trouble understanding everyone... people should communicate only by writing

And thanks for the offer... I will certainly be asking.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Not necessarily miserable. I'm what they call "type A" - it's more like I'm driven to focus on the tedious details. If I ignore the urge, that's when I become miserable. :P

I understand the feeling. And all I can say is: Suite yourself. or some of my friends would say "knock yourself down" witit!

Originally Posted by laepelba

Another question for you both. Returning to #4.... can I use "canosa" for "grey-haired"? And is "canosa" used with "ser"?

Like so:
- Para entonces, yo seré canosa.
- Para esa época, yo seré canosa.

No, you can use it with estar or tener, that's it.

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

I think I would prefer "estaré canosa"...
Still, a little nuance: if I hear about someone "está canoso", it means they're young but have a lot of grey hairs... however the word "canas" by itself is immediately associated with age. (That's why I suggested "tendré canas").
"Un hombre/una mujer que (ya) peina canas" is an old person.
*"peinar canas" (it's an expression by itself) = "to comb grey hairs"

And a life lesson to estimate someone's age: "La cana engaña, el diente miente y la arruga desengaña" (≈"the Grey hair deceives, the tooth lies and the wrinkle reveals the truth").

Ah! Semantics. Don't you love it!

When I came to the US, I was 25 y.o, I had grey hair already.
I started at 17 y.o.

Did not bring any wisdom though... as some of you can attest.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

I know the feeling about mixing language variations... my English limps due to American and British differences I have never been able to discern.

...But I think you'll be well understood in Lima.

It's a shame that the trip to Mexico has been cancelled, but as my grandfather used to say: "hay más tiempo que vida" -> there will be another chance.

I have a question for you.

You know a lot English right. Then you are able to speak at English with someone or only you know to write the language.

I asking you this because. I have tried to speak with the people that knows English for telephone really it's hard for me. Because they speak very fast and sometimes I don't archieve understand them. Do you know some way to learn to speak English?

Please. I'm getting my major endeavor in this language because I love it. But sometimes I need hints of you.


In spite of that I have tried to speak with the American people sometimes I archieve understand the people for telephone right. But my purposes even not are ready. I began in this issues since one year ago. But still I'm no able to speak at English with someone.

[Rusty]

It takes a lot of practice to speak English (or whatever language you're learning). Find someone you can practice with often. Tienes que hablar lo más posible para poder lograr tu meta.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Crotalito: Rusty is very right. The only way to improve is to study and practice, practice, practice.

I'm not good at speaking, but there are tips that have helped me improve: watch foreign TV and movies (preferably without subtitles, or with English subtitles); hear music and try to write the lyrics you understand; repeat sentences aloud... and you have an extra possibility to talk to native speakers: use the instant messengers with the microphone on.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Crotalito: Rusty is very right. The only way to improve is to study and practice, practice, practice.

I'm not good at speaking, but there are tips that have helped me improve: watch foreign TV and movies (preferably without subtitles, or with English subtitles); hear music and try to write the lyrics you understand; repeat sentences aloud... and you have an extra possibility to talk to native speakers: use the instant messengers with the microphone on.

One thing that I am against, is watching TV with any subtitles. Because TV is supposed to be watched and heard, not read. :-)

I always make that point with people that want to learn any language.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

One thing that I am against, is watching TV with any subtitles. Because TV is supposed to be watched and heard, not read. :-)

I always make that point with people that want to learn any language.

Actually, I have to say that I try to do some of both - with subtitles and without. The subtitles help me understand the different accents. In fact, I've come to notice when the subtitles don't match the actual lines in the program. Then I'll turn the subtitles off. They really help for beginners like me, though! [Malila knows I'm talking about Mario.......]

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Lou Ann: Watching Mario won't help you much with learning anything else than ...ahm... aesthetics...

As for subtitles, they will be turned off as soon as you feel more confident to understand most of what you hear.