More Random Exercise Questions (determiners)

[laepelba]

This is a translation exercise:

4) Given English sentence: There were some problems when the strike started.
My answer: Había algunos problemas cuando empezó la huelga.
The book's answer: Hubo algunos problemas cuando empezó la huelga.
My question: Why preterite? I thought that when there is something ongoing (x) and something happens (y) during the ongoing thing, then (x) is imperfect and (y) is preterite....???

5) Given English sentence: I see you have no beer in your glass.
My answer: Veo que no tienes nada de cerveza en tu vaso.
The book's answer: Veo que no tienes cerveza en tu vaso.
My question: Is my answer correct, too? The book gave several examples in the chapter using "nada de" with an uncountable noun that seemed to be the same in sentence structure as this....

11) Given English sentence: There must be somebody in there.
My answer: Debe estar alguien allá.
The book's answer: Debe de haber alguien allí/ahí adentro.
My question: "de haber"??? What does that mean? And (this may be obvious, but I'm kind of slow...), does "allí/ahí adentro" always mean "in there"? Could it have been "allá adentro"?

Thank you for any help you can give me!

[Don José]

4) I´m not sure.
5) Both answers are right. Yours sounds even "more" Spanish. I would give you an extra point for the use of "nada de".

11) Your answer is wrong because of "estar".
There is a pen on the table: hay un bolígrafo sobre la mesa.
There are some people waiting: hay algunas personas esperando.

I think "there + to be" is always "haber", and not "estar". I can´t think in any exception.

But notice:

John must be in there: Juan debe estar allí.

"In there". I would say the proposition "in" implies "dentro".

"Allá dentro" is good. A thread about allí, allá...:

http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthrea...=all%ED+all%E1

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Some comments on #4. I agree with Don José for the others.

Originally Posted by laepelba

4) Given English sentence: There were some problems when the strike started.
My answer: Había algunos problemas cuando empezó la huelga. -> This means that when the strike started there were already some problems.
The book's answer: Hubo algunos problemas cuando empezó la huelga. -> This means that when the strike started, there were problems derived from it.
My question: Why preterite? I thought that when there is something ongoing (x) and something happens (y) during the ongoing thing, then (x) is imperfect and (y) is preterite....??? I guess context would tell, but there isn't any, so both answers would be fine for me.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by laepelba

This is a translation exercise:

4) Given English sentence: There were some problems when the strike started.
My answer: Había algunos problemas cuando empezó la huelga.
The book's answer: Hubo algunos problemas cuando empezó la huelga.
My question: Why preterite? I thought that when there is something ongoing (x) and something happens (y) during the ongoing thing, then (x) is imperfect and (y) is preterite....???

I agree with Malila but adding that I instantly translated it as the book did because it is the most probable context and I suspect that if they were trying to say that those problems were contemporary or the cause for that strike, they would've used some compound tense (there were being ... or something like that)

Originally Posted by laepelba

5) Given English sentence: I see you have no beer in your glass.
My answer: Veo que no tienes nada de cerveza en tu vaso.
The book's answer: Veo que no tienes cerveza en tu vaso.
My question: Is my answer correct, too? The book gave several examples in the chapter using "nada de" with an uncountable noun that seemed to be the same in sentence structure as this....

I can't assert it about the original English sentence, but the book's answer is rather ambiguous as it suggests that either the glass was empty or it was containing some wine, water, etc. Your answer is not ambiguous but it's very emphatic, like saying "tu vaso está completamente vacío" instead of "tu vaso está vacío".

Originally Posted by laepelba

11) Given English sentence: There must be somebody in there.
My answer: Debe estar alguien allá.
The book's answer: Debe de haber alguien allí/ahí adentro.
My question: "de haber"??? What does that mean? And (this may be obvious, but I'm kind of slow...), does "allí/ahí adentro" always mean "in there"? Could it have been "allá adentro"?

"There (be)" is translated as "haber". By adding "de" to deber we avoid any ambiguity about some sort of obligation involving someone being in there ("debe haber alguien allí ... no podemos dejar solo el lugar") or it meaning some speculation about someone being actually in there ("debe de haber alguien allí ... por eso se oye música"). Remember: "deber de" is the auxiliary verb in a periphrasis that gives a degree of uncertainty or probability to the action denoted by the main verb.

[laepelba]

Thanks, all - I am still contemplating the "de haber" thing - when I have time a little later, I am going to try to write some sentences, and will post them here to see if I have the idea down correctly. I like the concept!! Thanks again!!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

"Haber" is just the infinitive of "hay" (there is/are).

Studying "deber de" might be more fruitful.

[laepelba]

Okay, so how about the following 5 sentences using "deber de" (and mostly with "haber"):

1) Deben de haber engañado en el examen. (They must have cheated on the exam.)

2) Mi colega debe de haber puesto mis llaves en mi escritorio. (My colleague must have put my keys on my desk.)

3) Debe de haber llovido mientras que yo estaba en mis vacaciones. (It must have rained while I was on vacation.)

4) Los cuadros se deben de haber encorvado durante el terremoto. (The pictures must have become crooked during the earthquake.)

5) El vino debe de ser de Chile. (The wine must be from Chile.)

**I'm not sure about the use of "encorvar" for "cuadros" ... but I'm also trying to build my vocabulary. If not, what would be a better way of saying it?

**And, in the final sentence, would you really use "de" twice in three words like that?

Thanks for any corrections!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Good job!


Some comments below:

Originally Posted by laepelba

1) Deben de haber engañado copiado (Mex.) /hecho trampa en el examen. (They must have cheated on the exam.)

2) Mi colega debe de haber puesto mis llaves en mi escritorio. (My colleague must have put my keys on my desk.)

3) Debe de haber llovido mientras que yo estaba en mis vacaciones. (It must have rained while I was on vacation.)

4) Los cuadros se deben de haber encorvado (It would be understood, but it doesn't sound right to me. "Enchuecado" (Mex.) / "torcido" / "retorcido" may be better.) durante el terremoto. (The pictures must have become crooked during the earthquake.)

5) El vino debe de ser de Chile. (The wine must be from Chile.)

**And, in the final sentence, would you really use "de" twice in three words like that? It's true we're a bit edgy about repetition of words, and we may have looked for another way of saying it, but your sentence is grammatically right.

Just one extra comment: I think you do realize there is a difference of verb "haber" usage, but it's important to underline it:
In "debe de haber alguien ahí", it's a synonym of "hallarse" or "estar".
And in "mi colega debe de haber puesto mis llaves en el escritorio", it's the auxiliary verb for compound conjugation.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Good job!

Just one extra comment: I think you do realize there is a difference of verb "haber" usage, but it's important to underline it:
In "debe de haber alguien ahí", it's a synonym of "hallarse" or "estar".
And in "mi colega debe de haber puesto mis llaves en el escritorio", it's the auxiliary verb for compound conjugation.

Thanks, Malila - so my grammar was okay in the sentences, but my mistakes were in word choice? That just proves I need more practice with native speakers!

So, first of all, I was going to use "torcer" in #4, but I've only heard it used with screws/screwdrivers, so I decided against it .... but it felt more correct. I was right.

Secondly, no, I didn't really know the difference in the usage of "haber". Except for its obvious use as an auxiliary verb or as "there is/are/were/etc.", I don't really know anything about it. So, it's only a synonym of "hallarse" or "estar" when used with "deber de haber"? No, I guess not. Could you give me a couple of sentences? I'm still not completely understanding its use in that original sentence "Debe de haber alguien allí adentro.".......

Also, in "mi colega debe de haber puesto...", isn't it the same usage as "deben de haber copiado..." and "debe de haber llovido..." and "Los cuadros se deben de haber torcido..."?

Thanks again! Still pondering this.....

Oh ... and, funny thing - one of the "word of the day" emails I get had the word "deber" today.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Secondly, no, I didn't really know the difference in the usage of "haber". Except for its obvious use as an auxiliary verb or as "there is/are/were/etc."

I'm worrying then you're not seeing such difference then between the use as "estar"/"hallar(se)":

·Hay alguien ahí. -> Ahí está / se halla una persona.
There is someone there. -> Someone is there.

·Debe de haber cerillos en la cocina. -> Los cerillos deben de hallarse/estar en la cocina.
There must be matches in the kitchen. -> Matches must be found / must be in the kitchen.


...and compound conjugation, which needs "haber" + past participle.
In your examples, "haber" is an infinitive, because the conjugated verb is "deber".

·Mi colega debe de haber puesto mis llaves en mi escritorio.
My colleague must have put my keys on my desk.

·Debes de haber estado bromeando cuando dijiste que no entendías.
You must have been joking when you said you didn't understand.


If you're still confused, go back to compound tenses and check their structure, so you'll see how the auxiliary works.

[laepelba]

Okay - I'm starting to see it! I will work on it (a little later) and will come back to this and post some more attempts to underscore the differences.... THANKS!!

[Don José]

Originally Posted by laepelba

5) El vino debe de ser de Chile. (The wine must be from Chile.)


**And, in the final sentence, would you really use "de" twice in three words like that?

Thanks for any corrections!

You can omit the first "de".


Explanation in the link Angelica wrote:


http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/SrvltConsulta?lema=deber


Also, you could say:

El vino debe (de) ser chileno.

As Angelica said, your sentence is grammatically right, and lots of native Spanish speakers would repeat the preposition "de". But for the sake of style, I think it should be better not to repeat it.