Use of "que"

[SPX]

So I was looking up how to say "I have to go" and the translation was "Tengo que ir."

Why "que?" Why not just "Tengo ir"?

I don't understand the use of que here at all. Help?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by SPX

So I was looking up how to say "I have to go" and the translation was "Tengo que ir."

Why "que?" Why not just "Tengo ir"?

I don't understand the use of que here at all. Help?

I have to go = (yo) tengo que irme (I have to leave the place)

I have to go = (yo) tengo que ir ) I must go (to a place)

[SPX]

That still doesn't explain the use of Que.

Tengo = I have
Ir = to go

What's up with the "que"?

[chileno]

Someone else will explain... I hope

[aleCcowaN]

You say "tengo que ir" instead of "tengo ir" for the very same reason you say "I have to go" instead of saying "I have go". My developing English brain tells me that hearing "I have go" suggests the speaker wanted to say something like "I have gone" and something awful happened like a hammer blown at his head at the time of speaking. The preposition "to" is needed to tell that "go" is intended as the bare meaning of the action and not as the action being performed in any way and to prevent that "go" may be parsed as part of a verbal periphrasis ("I have gone", "I will go", "I would've gone"). So "que" has the exact function and meaning than "to" within the scope of those examples. Additionally "que" has a lot of similar functions in Spanish that English doesn't need because it has a much simpler grammar.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by SPX

That still doesn't explain the use of Que.

Tengo = I have
Ir = to go

What's up with the "que"?

To be honest, the real problem is that you are trying to translate word for word, and languages don't work like that. You have to translate phrase by phrase. Some words on their own have several meanings, and you can't always map the meaning of one word onto another in a different language. So when you say "Tengo = I have" it is only true when "have" means "possess"

Tengo una escopeta = I have a shotgun

This is not the same as the verbal phrase "tengo que" which means "I must" or "I have to"

So the answer to your question is the "que" is there to differentiate the verb "tengo" and the verbial phrase "tengo que", because they mean different things. Why it is a "que" and not something else, the answer is because it just is.

[SPX]

Originally Posted by Perikles

To be honest, the real problem is that you are trying to translate word for word, and languages don't work like that.

Well that's the really frustrating thing about Spanish . . . sometimes that's EXACTLY how it works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the word order is EXACTLY like English . . . and sometimes it's all jumbled up.

Soy - I am
de - from
los Estados Unidos. - the United States

Quiero - I want
una - a
hamburguesa - hamburger

Quiero - I want
estudiar - to study

Necesito - I need
enviar - to send
una - a
carta - letter


That makes it all sound very simple. So it seems obvious that "I have to go" is "Tengo ir."

This reminds me of the confusing "Voy a" when used with a verb. I have always been taught that the infinitive has "to" already built into it.

So "Voy a escribir un libro" sounds to me like, "I am going to to write a book," you know? Why not just "Voy escribir un libro". . .?

So the real problem arises when you've been successful directly translating and it's been correct. Then you find something that doesn't fall into that same pattern and it just leaves you scratching your head.

Originally Posted by Perikles

So the answer to your question is the "que" is there to differentiate the verb "tengo" and the verbial phrase "tengo que", because they mean different things. Why it is a "que" and not something else, the answer is because it just is.

Okay, thanks. I'm sure it will seem normal to me after repeated use.

[Cuholvke]

The use of "que" is similar to that of "to". Other cases are "para" ("para ganar" = "to win") and "hacia" ("hacia el este" = "to the east")

Examples:
I have to go.
Tengo que ir(me).

You have to do that.
Tienes que hacer eso.

I have to take that way.
Tengo que tomar ese camino.

I need to go there.
Tengo que ir ahí.
Necesito ir ahí. (In this particular case "Necesito" ("I need" / "I need to") overrides the need of "que".)

I need you to go there.
Necesito que vayas ahí.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by SPX

Well that's the really frustrating thing about Spanish . . . sometimes that's EXACTLY how it works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the word order is EXACTLY like English . . . and sometimes it's all jumbled up..

Yes exactly - many people say that Spanish is easy to learn, but, say, German is difficult. In fact I find this really annoying quality of Spanish being the same order sometimes as something really difficult because it trips you up when it isn't. I find in many ways, German is easier in that the word order is almost always different to English, so at least you know that to start with.

[SPX]

It seems that a lot of what goes into successfully learning a language is just exposure and having something drilled into your subconscious to the point to where you don't even think about it or question it . . . you just know how to say what you want to say.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by SPX

It seems that a lot of what goes into successfully learning a language is just exposure and having something drilled into your subconscious to the point to where you don't even think about it or question it . . . you just know how to say what you want to say.

That's why I recommend you to read and write (transcribe) a novel in Spanish and then translate it.

That will give enough exposure and will drill your subconscious, to the point that you won't know when was it that you started to understand more Spanish.

[SPX]

That is a good suggestion.

I have a parallel text beginner's book of stories that has everything in Spanish on one page and English on the other. It starts off with very basic stories in the present tense only and then gets progressively more advanced.

Unfortunately, I am so limited in my abilities that even the basic stuff has been getting stuck on some of the grammar and and vocabulary. It is helpful, though. You may be onto something about writing some of it out, too.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by SPX

That is a good suggestion.

No it isn't - Chileno should know better than that as advice for a complete beginner. There are very few people for whom this works. It worked for Chileno, but a basic understanding of the mechanics of a language first will accelerate the learning process. Trust me. By all means read your parallel texts, but learn a little bit of basic grammar first.

[SPX]

Originally Posted by Perikles

. . . but learn a little bit of basic grammar first.

I have been going through the 123 Teach Me grammar course.

http://www.123teachme.com/learn_span...grammar_course

Not sure if you're familiar with it. Any thoughts?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

No it isn't - Chileno should know better than that as advice for a complete beginner. There are very few people for whom this works. It worked for Chileno, but a basic understanding of the mechanics of a language first will accelerate the learning process. Trust me. By all means read your parallel texts, but learn a little bit of basic grammar first.

You mean to tell him he doesn't even manage in his own language?

Because that's how I take your statement about getting to understand basic mechanics of a language. His own language.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by SPX

I have been going through the 123 Teach Me grammar course.

Not sure if you're familiar with it. Any thoughts?

No, I've not seen it before, but at first glance it looks good to me

Originally Posted by chileno

You mean to tell him he doesn't even manage in his own language?

Because that's how I take your statement about getting to understand basic mechanics of a language. His own language.

I did not mean that at all. I was referring to starting to learn a second language as an adult.

And somehow I suspect you knew very well what I meant.

[languagelover]

Originally Posted by SPX

It seems that a lot of what goes into successfully learning a language is just exposure and having something drilled into your subconscious to the point to where you don't even think about it or question it . . . you just know how to say what you want to say.

SPX, you just hit the nail on the head!

I've learnt many languages and "exposure", as you've called it, is absolutely what makes all the difference. Just listen to as much Spanish as you can and, like you've said, your subconscious will begin to pick up the correct way of saying things.

Grammar is useful but I find it is only really put to use when you want to write correctly in a foreign language (at least until your speaking capabilities catch up).

As soon as you have to speak in that foreign language, it's the "exposure" that comes in handy. You'll find yourself saying something and then thinking "wow, I said all that correctly without having to think about it" ... then it gets easier and easier from there, I promise.

All the best!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by languagelover

Grammar is useful but I find it is only really put to use when you want to write correctly in a foreign language (at least until your speaking capabilities catch up).

That makes no sense. If you don't speak as you would write, then you are kidding yourself that you are speaking correctly. OK, you may find everybody understands you, but that's not quite the same.

Everybody learns differently, so maybe he will learn like that. In which case, there is little point in his asking questions on a forum, where answers usually involve grammatical explanations.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I did not mean that at all. I was referring to starting to learn a second language as an adult.

And somehow I suspect you knew very well what I meant.

But that's exactly what you are not understanding...


As an example:

you come from England and you guys drive on the other side of the street than in most countries in the world. How difficult will it be to accommodate that in order to drive in the way you are not accustomed?

Do you have to start from the beginning as if you didn't know how to drive?

Originally Posted by languagelover

SPX, you just hit the nail on the head!

I've learnt many languages and "exposure", as you've called it, is absolutely what makes all the difference. Just listen to as much Spanish as you can and, like you've said, your subconscious will begin to pick up the correct way of saying things.

Grammar is useful but I find it is only really put to use when you want to write correctly in a foreign language (at least until your speaking capabilities catch up).

As soon as you have to speak in that foreign language, it's the "exposure" that comes in handy. You'll find yourself saying something and then thinking "wow, I said all that correctly without having to think about it" ... then it gets easier and easier from there, I promise.

All the best!

I did put all that together and did at the same time, I did not way to catch up anything. I did my own "parallel text book"

Originally Posted by Perikles

That makes no sense. If you don't speak as you would write, then you are kidding yourself that you are speaking correctly. OK, you may find everybody understands you, but that's not quite the same.

Everybody learns differently, so maybe he will learn like that. In which case, there is little point in his asking questions on a forum, where answers usually involve grammatical explanations.

But that's what you think and I really think you don't understand the concept I've been imparting.

While it is true that everybody is different and learn different, what you are trying to say with that I make the simile to: everybody is different, hence everybody walks different. And it is true, you go the the dr and they will find exactly the way you walk. That is how far up you lift each of you feet when you walk. Exactly what part of the foot touched first the floor etc and they can design a pair of walking or running shoes custom made.

Right?

Well, I take advantage of the fact that we all walk, and not of the fact in differences on how we walk.

I don't know if that make sense to you.

Now, I've got to run to work!

[SPX]

Originally Posted by languagelover

All the best!

Good thoughts there, and thanks a bunch!

Originally Posted by Perikles

That makes no sense. If you don't speak as you would write, then you are kidding yourself that you are speaking correctly. OK, you may find everybody understands you, but that's not quite the same.

Everybody learns differently, so maybe he will learn like that. In which case, there is little point in his asking questions on a forum, where answers usually involve grammatical explanations.

If I understood correctly, I think the poster only meant that more conscious thought and knowledge of the language comes into play when you're taking the time to write something out, which is usually a much slower and more laborious process.

When you're speaking, on the other hand, once you really "know what you're doing" you don't construct the sentence in your head before you say it, making sure that everything is in the right place and that all rules are followed . . . you just say what you want to say and it flows out effortlessly like water. This is, no doubt, how you speak English (and probably Spanish too at this point).